Questions for a recovering mortician

[MbalmR]

A couple of people have suggested that I begin a thread posting my "tales from the trenches," but I realize that there are limits to what people want to read about, and I surely don't want to upset anyone by saying too much, you know what I mean?

I'm thinking..........if anyone has any questions, I'd be happy to answer them honestly, with as much decorum as possible, and I promise not to trivialize the subject of loss by being purposefully vulgar or graphic. If you have any questions for me, you can ask them here, send me a PM, or you may email me.

Keep in mind, however, that I do have a rather twisted sense of humor, so I may occasionally come across as an ass, but I'll apologize for that in advance and hope to begin a new, interesting, and possibly educational dialogue with my new friends here in the forum.

[JeffD]

OK, I'll start.

Do they still bury people 6 feet under? I read that some cemeteries bury 'em only 18" under. What's the real story?

[Bake]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

A couple of people have suggested that I begin a thread posting my "tales from the trenches," but I realize that there are limits to what people want to read about, and I surely don't want to upset anyone by saying too much, you know what I mean?

I'm thinking..........if anyone has any questions, I'd be happy to answer them honestly, with as much decorum as possible, and I promise not to trivialize the subject of loss by being purposefully vulgar or graphic. If you have any questions for me, you can ask them here, send me a PM, or you may email me.

Keep in mind, however, that I do have a rather twisted sense of humor, so I may occasionally come across as an ass, but I'll apologize for that in advance and hope to begin a new, interesting, and possibly educational dialogue with my new friends here in the forum.

Don't you have to have a twisted sense of humor working your line of business? I have to say, I think it is very nice of you to offer to answer everybody's questions.

[MbalmR]

Sure, you just HAD to start with a question that is difficult for me to answer. "6 feet" is an average depth, allowing for the burial vault (which is required in most cemeteries in the United States.) Obviously, no one jumps in there with a yard stick and takes precise measurements, but it's a very close approximation.

Exceptions would be in cemeteries where space is at a premium, and there are cases where people are buried one on top of the other, which may be where the 18 inch rule comes into play.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Bake

Don't you have to have a twisted sense of humor working your line of business? I have to say, I think it is very nice of you to offer to answer everybody's questions.

It's my honor and duty. Ask Scott; he understands about duty, LOL.

I'm afraid I've always had an over-developed sense of humor, but yes, it absolutely comes in handy when dealing with all that sadness.

[Snoopy]

Do bodies really move on there own after death..I remember my grandfather who used to work at a funeral parlor would tell us stories about how some would sit up on there own..is this true or just my Grandfather's twisted way of trying to freak us out? LOL

[Analyst_Rob]

Hey EbalmR
Thanks for the Q&A
My first question is a little less technical… What is the most memorial way someone requested to be dressed when buried?
A quick related follow-up…. Has anyone ever requested a wardrobe change????
(at/each viewing… then burial???)

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Do bodies really move on there own after death..I remember my grandfather who used to work at a funeral parlor would tell us stories about how some would sit up on there own..is this true or just my Grandfather's twisted way of trying to freak us out? LOL

I've never in all my years seen a body sit up. My husband has been doing this for 30 years and hasn't seen it either. It doesn't happen to my knowledge. The myth we were exposed to in mortuary science college was that two people in a diner one day overheard two morticians talking about how well a body "SET up," which refers to the firmness of tissues in a successful embalming. They misunderstood, and the rumors flew from there.

[candleinthewind]

I have a friend from high school who joined the family business and runs their funeral home. He also has a twisted sense of humor. He won't talk business on social occasions, but something 'bout that boy ain't right.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Analyst_Rob

Hey EbalmR
Thanks for the Q&A
My first question is a little less technical… What is the most memorial way someone requested to be dressed when buried?
A quick related follow-up…. Has anyone ever requested a wardrobe change????
(at/each viewing… then burial???)

Wardrobe requests are rarely as stupefying as what people will wear to funerals. You know, skirts any shorter they'd be scarves (I've seen more cotton at the top of an aspirin bottle) or the pants worn by two brothers at my very first burial.........plumber's crack on both sides of the bench. I had to STAND there trying not to laugh all the way through the burial rites! It was a true Christian test of fortitude for me.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by candleinthewind

I have a friend from high school who joined the family business and runs their funeral home. He also has a twisted sense of humor. He won't talk business on social occasions, but something 'bout that boy ain't right.

You ain't kidding; we're all a little nuts. The good news about your friend is that he/she didn't want to be the son/daughter to drop the ball on the family business; I however, CHOSE this profession. On purpose! That makes me far crazier.

[MbalmR]

Ooops, for Analyst_Rob--to answer the second part of your question, I've never had anyone request wardrobe changes for their loved one, but I did once almost cut up the back of a co-worker's suit jacket thinking it was meant to be put on the deceased. That'll teach HIM not to hang his coat in the prep room!!!

[JeffD]

On the A&E series "Family Plots", Shonna the embalmer always seems to be overwhelmed, running around like crazy. Is this typical or was it just because Poway Bernardo was so disorganized?

[smellslikealmonds]

I was wanting to go to school to be a mortician, but everytime I think about having to embalm a baby or child it makes me want to cry. how do you deal with that?

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by JeffD

On the A&E series "Family Plots", Shonna the embalmer always seems to be overwhelmed, running around like crazy. Is this typical or was it just because Poway Bernardo was so disorganized?

It's a little of both. No one at that place was pulling their weight. Embalming can take several hours and requires a great deal of strength and sweat equity. It's hard on the back and hard on the soul. Just when poor Shonna thought she was done for the day, another body probably arrived. There goes the dinner break! I've done it many times on an empty stomach and with no sleep, and I'm frankly surprised Shonna was as cheerful about it as she was.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by smellslikealmonds

I was wanting to go to school to be a mortician, but everytime I think about having to embalm a baby or child it makes me want to cry. how do you deal with that?

That is difficult. People in this profession have to have an "off switch" for emotional distress to get the job done--just like firemen, paramedics and pediatricians do. That's not to imply that we become calloused to the agony of loss, but it's a job that needs to be done, and we do find a way. If it's the very last thing we can do for that child, that family, then there's some pride in the task at hand. But what I did personally was just save it all up and go home and have a good cry. That was my release, and it worked for me.

[PiggyTx]

Thanks for the Q n A. IS the make up you use on the deceased very different than the makeup live peeps use? Is it similiar? thanks

[different kind of girl]

My husband's a funeral director/embalmer too and he talks to classes at high schools a lot on their career days. There's always someone in the class who says they heard a body sat up, etc. But it's complete BS, that doesn't happen.

He also says people will bring in outfits for their loved ones to wear that just don't make sense. Say the person had an autopsy and the family will bring in a sleeveless, strapless number. Hello?! Or they'll bring in an old man's old military uniform that hasn't fit for ages.

[xenaswolf]

A few questions..
How exactly do you dress the body? Is it hard because of rigor or has rigor passed and they are flexible again?

How exactly is embalming done? If the person is to be cremated are they embalmed?

Have you ever had to work on a friend/family member?

Thanks for the Q & A

[onehunglow]

Like many Fire Fighters/EMTs/Medics I worked in a home doing many jobs. Trocar is the one thing that I'll never forget. Like a shop vac. The owner never took any family members. The embalming is just a small part. Making someone look good after a bad accident is a hard thing to do. Real art. The body can move when it comes out of rig but it is more like a twitch but can scare the hell out of one. Once they are out of rigor they move but the term "like moving a dead man" is true. It is hard and takes two. Also when the fluid is pumped in getting the color just right with dye takes some talent. Black people are hard to embalm. They never look just right. Maybe the Mort can answer that. We only had 5 black people while I worked there and none of the families were happy with what the Mort. did, but he did his best. But my experince goes back almost 30 years. So I am dated.

[Shes Not There]

Why are embalmed bodies so hard? I mean, I don't expect them to be mushy and the only corpses I've touched were embalmed. Thanks for answering these questions...

[RoRo]

I have the greatest admiration for Morticians/Embalmers. The service they provide is such a great comfort to the family. When my daddy died, I was devastated because I hadn't seen him for awhile, but he looked so great and that truly comforted me. So a HUGE thank you to all who do or have done this job!!!

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by PiggyTx

Thanks for the Q n A. IS the make up you use on the deceased very different than the makeup live peeps use? Is it similiar? thanks

There are very expensive mortuary cosmetics available for "restorative arts," but most of the time, I used plain old......whatever was on sale: Cover Girl, Estee Lauder, etc. Frankly, unless it's a serious restoration, the same cosmetics that worked on the living work on the dead, and look a little more natural. (Mortuary cosmetics can be quite heavy and more opaque.)

[ComputerGuy]

I thank you too. I did Mortuary Affairs in the military and have enjoyed working with some very professional folks. A deffinate different sense of humor that is for sure. More time over the top, like I tend to be.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by xenaswolf

A few questions..
How exactly do you dress the body? Is it hard because of rigor or has rigor passed and they are flexible again?

How exactly is embalming done? If the person is to be cremated are they embalmed?

Have you ever had to work on a friend/family member?

Thanks for the Q & A

You're welcome, and thanks for your interest.

In the best possible scenario for dressing a body, the body is dressed in the clothes just as they come in--that is, no cutting of any cloth whatsoever. That is how I dressed most of the bodies I prepared for viewing.

Rigor is a chemical reaction in the tissues which comes and then goes away, and it is difficult to dress an unembalmed body because if there is rigor, you have to understand that a person rarely dies in the position of repose that you'd see in the casket. On the other hand, an unembalmed body is often "too flexible;" believe it or not, it's easier to dress remains that are firm with good tissue fixation from the embalming process (and it's more sanitary to the embalmer.)

Embalming is a very involved process. It's hard to describe it here and be concise, but it generally involves the raising of vessels, arteries and veins, through a small incision, and preservative fluid is forced in through the artery which pushes the blood out through the vein. As the blood is drained away, the embalming fluid permeates the tissues and acts to sanitize, preserve and restore.

There is no law requiring remains to be embalmed, except in certain (and very rare cases.) Thus, for a cremation, a body may only be embalmed if there is an open casket viewing for the public and the family requests it.

I haven't ever worked on the remains of any of my relatives, but I've handled cases of people I knew very well. My husband was kind enough to embalm my father after he passed away, and I'll always be grateful for his work, because he transformed a barely recognizable man back into what I was used to seeing when my father was healthy and vibrant.

[RoRo]

Thank you for all the information ! This is something I've always wondered about, but had no one to ask...Thank you for taking the time!

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Shes Not There

Why are embalmed bodies so hard? I mean, I don't expect them to be mushy and the only corpses I've touched were embalmed. Thanks for answering these questions...

Tissue firming is a major goal for any embalmer. It means that the fluid has adequately permeated the tissues, and that preservation has taken place. Some bodies simply refuse to accept fluid for various reasons--for example, medications they have in their systems, or in the case of kidney failure (urea contains ammonia, which neutralizes formaldehyde.) Those bodies can remain unfortunately soft, and that "softness" means that decomposition will occur faster than in a firm body.

Firm is good (preserved, albeit not indefinitely; soft means decomp is not far behind.)

[xenaswolf]

Thank you, I always wondered! I was a paramedic and fortunately didn't have to deal with any bodies that had reached rigor yet, so I wasn't sure about the embalming process.

[Aries65]

I was just curious about the look on dead people's faces? I've been to a few open casket viewings, and some of the people were smiling and others weren't.

Does the family request something like that, or in some cases does a person die with a look frozen on their face that you guys can't "fix"?

[onehunglow]

MbalmeR,
Why was it the Mort. I worked for could not get black people to look correct. I know about the dyes, but there was things I just couldn't put my finger on. I knew these people in life and in death, I could hardly tell them as the ones I knew.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Aries65

I was just curious about the look on dead people's faces? I've been to a few open casket viewings, and some of the people were smiling and others weren't.

Does the family request something like that, or in some cases does a person die with a look frozen on their face that you guys can't "fix"?

That's a really good question! When an embalmer begins his/her work, one of the first tasks is to "set the features." This isn't quite as simple as it sounds. Oddly enough, the mouth can be especially tricky, because the goal is to get the mouth just right, and sometimes things like ill-fitting dentures or just not taking enough time to create a look of "peaceful repose" will ruin the whole thing. (If you know anyone who went to a funeral and said "grandma just didn't look right," the odds are that her mouth closure was not done properly.)

I've yet to run into a face that couldn't be made to look relatively normal again. One trick to creating a "smile" on the face of the deceased is to gently massage the outer corners of the mouth with two fingers, in an upward motion, while the embalming fluid begins to firm the tissues. My husband taught me that trick, and he's a master embalmer (30 years' worth of experience!)

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by onehunglow

MbalmeR,
Why was it the Mort. I worked for could not get black people to look correct. I know about the dyes, but there was things I just couldn't put my finger on. I knew these people in life and in death, I could hardly tell them as the ones I knew.

That is baffling. Truthfully, I don't know.......if it wasn't a question of skin tone after the embalming process, my first guess is that the features on the faces of those poor souls just weren't set properly. I personally had only very rare occasions to work on African American individuals, so my "expertise" is very limited. Often enough, however, when someone says "something just isn't right, but I'm not sure what it is," it's the mouth closure that's to blame. Mouths can be tricky, and are crucial to a successful embalming.

[onehunglow]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

That is baffling. Truthfully, I don't know.......if it wasn't a question of skin tone after the embalming process, my first guess is that the features on the faces of those poor souls just weren't set properly. I personally had only very rare occasions to work on African American individuals, so my "expertise" is very limited. Often enough, however, when someone says "something just isn't right, but I'm not sure what it is," it's the mouth closure that's to blame. Mouths can be tricky, and are crucial to a successful embalming.

It was the face. The nose was not right, seemed to go too flat and the mouth looked like a frown. In one case the Family was so unhappy he gave them the funeral.I just worked and wanted to tell him "this don't look right". But he was a picky old fart and I'd been tossed out the back door. He took great pride in his work and maybe he just didn't know. It was a bad job.

[ST Moron]

I had two questions I was hoping you could answer:

Do you, yourself, wish to be embalmed when you die? You don't have to answer this one, since it is somewhat personal. I guess I'm just curious if someone "in the business" still wants to undergo the process themselves, even after experiencing first-hand what exactly is involved.

And: do faces relax after death to the point where, say, even a particularly anguished expression at the time of death will eventually "smooth itself out" after a while? Or have you had to deal with faces that had an expression that was so set, there was little you could do with it?

[Harry in Connecticut]

Please tell me why a vault is required. Is it more than preventing the plot from sinking in as the coffin rots away?

[pvezz]

My dad was sick for a long time before he died. When we saw him in the casket for the first time, my sister FREAKED. She literally screamed "that's not my DAD!!!!!" when she saw him; to the point that the funeral director literally thought she had taken us into the wrong room. He DIDN'T look like himself; mostly because he didn't look SICK anymore. How do you handle that? The poor funeral director didn't know what to do!!!

[tensecondstolove]

I hope this question doesn't sound rude or insensitive, but how do you handle the smell? Also, do you have a normal life outside of this? Anyone I've ever known in the business had very little free time as they were always on call.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by ST Moron

I had two questions I was hoping you could answer:

Do you, yourself, wish to be embalmed when you die? You don't have to answer this one, since it is somewhat personal. I guess I'm just curious if someone "in the business" still wants to undergo the process themselves, even after experiencing first-hand what exactly is involved.

And: do faces relax after death to the point where, say, even a particularly anguished expression at the time of death will eventually "smooth itself out" after a while? Or have you had to deal with faces that had an expression that was so set, there was little you could do with it?

I'm rather indifferent to what happens to my remains after I "shuffle off this mortal coil." I'm leaving that up to my husband, who will clearly outlive me, even though he's 10 years older. He is a real proponent of burial; I personally prefer cremation (hell, I could be blown out of a cannon, for all I care,) but the truth is that funerals are for the living, so whatever makes him happy is fine with me.

Facial muscles do relax after death. I've occasionally run across a jaw that was so stiff with rigor at the time of embalming that it took some serious effort to pry it open to achieve a natural mouth expression, but otherwise, facial features don't "freeze" forever.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Harry in Connecticut

Please tell me why a vault is required. Is it more than preventing the plot from sinking in as the coffin rots away?

Yes, that's exactly it. Cemeteries require vaults, funeral homes do not. The excavation equipment used today is SO heavy that it really puts a strain on the ground, especially where large holes have been dug and soil still remains loose. Vaults serve to protect the ground from caving in, and serve to protect the casket from the elements as well.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by pvezz

My dad was sick for a long time before he died. When we saw him in the casket for the first time, my sister FREAKED. She literally screamed "that's not my DAD!!!!!" when she saw him; to the point that the funeral director literally thought she had taken us into the wrong room. He DIDN'T look like himself; mostly because he didn't look SICK anymore. How do you handle that? The poor funeral director didn't know what to do!!!

I personally take the time to find out exactly what's wrong with the "memory picture" of the deceased. Sometimes, it's a simple matter of the deceased not having their glasses on (think of the scene in "My Girl" when Veda freaked over Thomas J. not having his glasses on.) Families are always invited to come in at LEAST an hour before the published visitation time, so that if any corrections need to be made, we have time to make them.

It's standard procedure for funeral directors to restore a body to it's more healthy appearance after a wasting disease by using something called "tissue filler," which plumps up the features. The family who prefers the body of their loved one to appear gaunt and emaciated in the casket, as they were at the time of death, is a rare occurance, so the funeral director in that case was just doing her job as was expected of her by the profession.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by tensecondstolove

I hope this question doesn't sound rude or insensitive, but how do you handle the smell? Also, do you have a normal life outside of this? Anyone I've ever known in the business had very little free time as they were always on call.

No one ever grows accustomed to the smell of decomposition, but one does get past the point of finding it unapproachable. It is part of the natural cycle of death, and we find a way to carry on through and past it. Of course, not every body has the smell of decomposition to it. They may be full of other smells, but they don't all smell "bad."

Formaldehyde is quite strong; sometimes the fumes from that can be more difficult to handle than the smell of the body!

I believe most funeral directors absolutely do lead normal lives. We surely cherish our free time when we have it, and for the most part, we have "normal" hours off, although this is a profession of "feast and famine:" you can go weeks where nothing happens at all, then all of a sudden a bus rolls over and you're working non-stop until the job is done. Some weeks are straight 9 to 5, then others, you're up in the middle of the night several times in a row and can't remember when you last ate. It's always a crap shoot.

[Bake]

You spoke of the "memory picture" of relatives. Do relatives ever supply a picture of their loved ones when they were alive and ask that you make them look like that? I had an aunt that passed from lung cancer. When we went to her viewing, they even had her eyebrows right, she never had any and ALWAYS drew them on, I used to watch her do it. So I was very surprised they had them EXACTLY as she did them! She looked so beautiful in her casket, one never knew she suffered the way she did. I give your profession alot of credit, I couldn't do it.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Bake

You spoke of the "memory picture" of relatives. Do relatives ever supply a picture of their loved ones when they were alive and ask that you make them look like that? I had an aunt that passed from lung cancer. When we went to her viewing, they even had her eyebrows right, she never had any and ALWAYS drew them on, I used to watch her do it. So I was very surprised they had them EXACTLY as she did them! She looked so beautiful in her casket, one never knew she suffered the way she did. I give your profession alot of credit, I couldn't do it.

We always ask the family to provide us with a photograph when we know embalming will take place for an open casket viewing. It helps us achieve the right coloration when applying cosmetics (we put them on men too) and it's REALLY a God-send when styling the hair of the deceased. Even on men!! Believe me, if Uncle Ted always parted his hair on the right and we part it on the left, something looks VERY wrong to the family when they view their loved one for the first time.

[Bake]

I do remember they had my Grandpa's lips wrong. I NEVER saw my Grandpa's lips, until he was lying in his casket. Did they really stuff his mouth with cotton like someone told me?

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Bake

I do remember they had my Grandpa's lips wrong. I NEVER saw my Grandpa's lips, until he was lying in his casket. Did they really stuff his mouth with cotton like someone told me?

Different funeral homes/embalmers have different methods/procedures as a matter of policy or necessity. I personally never used cotton to "fill out" a mouth unless the person was so gaunt at the time of death that the lips and cheeks were all sunken and I needed that extra "boost" to make the face appear less tragically thin, or to get the lips to remain closed properly.

[Katie]

Are the eyes and mouth sewn shut?

[Harry in Connecticut]

Can a family do the digging by hand, and make the casket at home? I asked two times. I hope I am not greedy.

[Bake]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

Different funeral homes/embalmers have different methods/procedures as a matter of policy or necessity. I personally never used cotton to "fill out" at mouth unless the person was so gaunt at the time of death that the lips and cheeks were all sunken and I needed that extra "boost" to make the face appear less tragically thin, or to get the lips to remain closed properly.

I just wanted to say "thank you" for answering everyone's questions, I for one am learning alot here! Its wonderful of you to take the time you are!

[pvezz]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

I personally take the time to find out exactly what's wrong with the "memory picture" of the deceased. Sometimes, it's a simple matter of the deceased not having their glasses on (think of the scene in "My Girl" when Veda freaked over Thomas J. not having his glasses on.) Families are always invited to come in at LEAST an hour before the published visitation time, so that if any corrections need to be made, we have time to make them.

It's standard procedure for funeral directors to restore a body to it's more healthy appearance after a wasting disease by using something called "tissue filler," which plumps up the features. The family who prefers the body of their loved one to appear gaunt and emaciated in the casket, as they were at the time of death, is a rare occurance, so the funeral director in that case was just doing her job as was expected of her by the profession.

Thanks for taking the time to answer me! Appreciate it!

[Aries65]

Is it possible that some morticians use too much formaldahyde at times? Some of the viewings I've attended you smell it when you get close to the casket - or is normal that you end up smelling it anyway?