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Thread: 2013: Dealey Plaza

  1. #1
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    2013: Dealey Plaza

    Scott, or anyone, how about a 50 years' on trip to Dallas on 22/11/13
    or as you guys like to write it 11/22/13. I've never been up the grassy knoll....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Challinor View Post
    Scott, or anyone, how about a 50 years' on trip to Dallas on 22/11/13
    or as you guys like to write it 11/22/13. I've never been up the grassy knoll....
    Not Scott, but I live outside of Dallas, so I thought I'd chime in here. Plan early if you're gonna come. I have a feeling its going to be a media nightmare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Challinor View Post
    Scott, or anyone, how about a 50 years' on trip to Dallas on 22/11/13
    or as you guys like to write it 11/22/13. I've never been up the grassy knoll....
    I've been there twice and I'll tell you what - it's an eery place for several reasons. For starters, the area just around it seems like time has stood still. What I mean is that depending on where you park, you can be in a fairly modern area. So as you get closer to Dealey Plaza, it becomes a time warp: the street signs look like they would have in the early 60's, etc - everything basically looks the same as it did on that November day.

    The other eery thing is that each time I went there, there were always people just walking around, sitting silently - some taking pictures. Personally, I went behind the grassy knoll (which also has been kept as it was on that day) to see where the REAL shooter was.

    I personally believe that head shot definitely came from the front. There is NO way that JFK would have been thrown back like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYSDeathhag View Post
    I've been there twice and I'll tell you what - it's an eery place for several reasons. For starters, the area just around it seems like time has stood still. What I mean is that depending on where you park, you can be in a fairly modern area. So as you get closer to Dealey Plaza, it becomes a time warp: the street signs look like they would have in the early 60's, etc - everything basically looks the same as it did on that November day.

    The other eery thing is that each time I went there, there were always people just walking around, sitting silently - some taking pictures. Personally, I went behind the grassy knoll (which also has been kept as it was on that day) to see where the REAL shooter was.

    I personally believe that head shot definitely came from the front. There is NO way that JFK would have been thrown back like that.
    I agree with you 100%.
    peek-a-boo!!

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    I think that he was caught in a 3 or 4 way crossfire from the book supository and the grassy knowl and the highway in front as well as a sewer drain that was level with the road. I think Oswald was involved but I don't believe he fired the kill shot. It came from the front. In fact here is a cool website that will stir up some shite.http://itwasjohnson.impiousdigest.com/index.htm
    Last edited by STRAIGHT; 07-09-2008 at 02:03 PM.

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    Ive heard that. They keep the trees, signs .... everything the way it was in 1963 so people can get a grasp on what that day was like. One day I want to go there. Its on my list of places in america to see.

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    It's obvious that if LHO was the one and only shooter, he would have started firing after the limo turned off Main, briefly heading north, right toward the alleged Book Depository sniper's nest...wide open and coming toward him. But no...this so-called crack shot waited until the limo turned onto Elm with more obstacles in line fire. Yeah right. I believe LHO never pulled a trigger. But you can't believe the Time-Life release of the Zapruder film either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0cBxPhLVOg

    As for Dealey Plaza then and now: http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/dpmap63.htm
    The Strange Case Of The Missing Corpse
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    I am all over going to a 50 year meet up in Dallas, I have always wanted to go and never made it out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeonCandy View Post
    Not Scott, but I live outside of Dallas, so I thought I'd chime in here. Plan early if you're gonna come. I have a feeling its going to be a media nightmare.
    I agree, I live just outside Dallas and it will be a circus gone wrong.
    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. --Oscar Wilde

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    I was down there on the 30th anniversary of the assasination. I was out of work at the time & when you're unemployed, you have the time to go events like this (I also attended a taping of Montel Williams around then.) They dedicated some sort of historical marker there. Nellie Connelly was there, tons of politicians, people who claimed to be at Dealey Plaza that fateful day, news crews from every outlet around, both the big and small. I saw the BBC, a Japanese TV station, and a small outlet from East Texas. It was truly a sight to see. Even Flip Benham, the pro life activist, was out there with his aborted baby photos. There were big steel barriers around the street areas, and of course, the cops were on the rooftops around the area.

    The last time I was there was in November, 2007 for a tour through the Dallas Historical Society. Quite subdued down there, it was during the weekend before Thanksgiving, and most people down there were part of a convention of people who gather every year to study their version of events. We left from Fair Park and it was quite hopping, they were filming Prison Break inside the Hall of State. The folks at the Hall of State then accused the Prison Break crew of stealing artifacts from the Historical Society. Later, the Dallas Historical Society was left with egg on their faces when it was learned that a DHS employee had left the artifacts at an hotel and they showed up in the hotel's lost and found.

    I have been several times throughout my 40 years of living in Dallas/Ft Worth, mostly to take out-of-towners.
    Last edited by crazedfemale; 07-09-2008 at 08:20 PM.
    In memory of a wonderful actor who left us way too soon - William Holden 1918-1981.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joplinfrk View Post
    I agree with you 100%.
    Count me in, I agree 100%, too. The Zapruder film says all that's necessary about the point of origin of the head shot.

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    That would be the ultimate FAD get-together. I'll drive down if I have to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bidmor View Post
    It's obvious that if LHO was the one and only shooter, he would have started firing after the limo turned off Main, briefly heading north, right toward the alleged Book Depository sniper's nest...wide open and coming toward him. But no...this so-called crack shot waited until the limo turned onto Elm with more obstacles in line fire. Yeah right. I believe LHO never pulled a trigger. But you can't believe the Time-Life release of the Zapruder film either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0cBxPhLVOg

    As for Dealey Plaza then and now: http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/dpmap63.htm
    Cool websites!! THanks Bid......

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    The 6th floor museum is a decent museum, with lots of exhibits and information. Somewhere there is a small conspirary museum nearby. The tour that is given by the Dallas Historical Society every November is worth taking if you ever get a chance. The "November in Dallas" convention will be held in November this year at the Adolphus Hotel.
    In memory of a wonderful actor who left us way too soon - William Holden 1918-1981.

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    Been there a few times. Its a trip.

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    I visited Dealey Plaza in 1992, fulfilling a lifelong dream. It was on a perfect September day. I roamed the plaza for hours, taking pictures, visited the 6th Floor Museum, and tried to avoid the homeless blacks guys walking around harrassing people for handouts.

    As for what really happened on 11/22/63, we'll never know. I've always wondered why Oswald didn't start shooting earlier. Did he get cold feet at first? Did he purposefully wait until the limo had passed him to begin shooting, so no eyes would be focused on his building?

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedfemale View Post
    The 6th floor museum is a decent museum, with lots of exhibits and information. Somewhere there is a small conspirary museum nearby. The tour that is given by the Dallas Historical Society every November is worth taking if you ever get a chance. The "November in Dallas" convention will be held in November this year at the Adolphus Hotel.
    The problem with the museum is that it doesn't even touch on any of the conspiracy questions and all of the photos that they have showing there omit anything that shows a frontal shot.

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    I agree, the 6th Floor Museum doesn't cover any of the conspiracy theories. That convention held in November had discussion groups, speakers, and forums about the assasination. After touring with the DHS, I realized there are so many theories. The man who gave us this tour is convinced that Johnson knew about it ahead of time and and E. Howard Hunt was one of the assasins (one of the three hobos arrested by the Dallas police).
    In memory of a wonderful actor who left us way too soon - William Holden 1918-1981.

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    It's obvious that if LHO was the one and only shooter, he would have started firing after the limo turned off Main...

    Playing devil's advocate, had Oswald fired then, he would have cut his chances of escaping to pretty much zero. They would have been right in front of him and the building would have been swarmed by police within seconds. If he was going to pull the trigger then, he would have been better off just walking up to the motorcade and shooting. His odds of getting away would have been about the same.

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    I don't know how it will be on the 50th anniversary, but I was there on the 25th anniversary and I'll tell you what it was like...

    I was working at Sewell Oldsmobile in Oak Cliff in November 1988. The Dallas Morning News had quite a bit of information regarding the 25th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination. I was only eight when it happened, but like so many others it had a HUGE impact on me.
    On the day of the 25th anniversary I made up some excuse to run an errand and instead of taking my Oldsmobile demonstrator I chose a 1987 dark blue Cadillac Fleetwood from the pre owned lot. It was a HUGE car 221 inches long and VERY elegant!
    I made up my mind that I wanted to be driving that Cadillac in front of the "Texas School Book Depository" at the EXACT moment Kennedy was shot 25 years earlier!
    (Now tell me I wasn't a "Death Hag" before I even knew what one was?!?!)
    When I got there I had to make several runs to be at the exact time at the exact moment. (I'm too tired and lazy to look it up now, but I think it was at 11:30 AM.)
    Once when I was making a run with the windows down on the Cadillac, (It was a beautiful day), a little boy about 5 or 6 years old said "Look daddy, there's a LIMOUSINE!"
    It was clear that the little boy who hadn't been born until 20 years AFTER the assassination was trying in his own way to "Live the Moment". (Future "Death Hag.")

    I hope I can be there for the 50th. It seems like a much greater marker than the 25th, and Dealy Plaza looks the same as it did in 1963.
    The 6th Floor Museum is the NUMBER ONE tourist site in Dallas!
    Last edited by Sam; 07-22-2008 at 04:52 AM.

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    The 30th anniversary was just chaos in Dealey Plaza, mainly because of the dedication of historical landmark ceremony. I remember I walked all the way down Elm Street from the Majestic Theatre to Dealey Plaza. Everything was normal, traffic running, people jay walking, etc. and then walking around the metal barriers and pro-life advocates led by Flip Benham, it was like walking into the Roman coliseum. So many people, news crews, and every day sorts like me just wanting to see it. I am glad I went, because the next day I got a job and had to give up such day trips!
    In memory of a wonderful actor who left us way too soon - William Holden 1918-1981.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filmmaker78 View Post
    It's obvious that if LHO was the one and only shooter, he would have started firing after the limo turned off Main...

    Playing devil's advocate, had Oswald fired then, he would have cut his chances of escaping to pretty much zero. They would have been right in front of him and the building would have been swarmed by police within seconds. If he was going to pull the trigger then, he would have been better off just walking up to the motorcade and shooting. His odds of getting away would have been about the same.
    I agree with you. It is also easier in terms of rifle sighting to fire 'downfield' then as it is coming closer to you. The adjustment you have to make to reacquire the target is less and the fact that it is moving away from you slowly and still relatively close for a rifle mitigates the smaller target aspect of it..
    Years ago I was a conspiracy type person. Then I did a few things like actually go to the site. It is small. The distances are not that far. Having gone through military training I know that it was well within the scope of his ability -albeit marksmen or sharpshooter qualified- to hit the targets. Plus the rifle Oswald used was yes a war surplus rifle but it was the same make/model that was used by the Italian Army in military sharpshooting events of the era and was as accurate as the m-14 rifle used by the American military at the time.

    But here is the biggest reason I have. When you read the pro-mafia, pro-coup de tat, pro- cia, pro-militia, pro-cuban, pro-anti cuban, et al theories as to the people that had the motives to do the killing either it was:
    1) damn crowded that day at Dealy Plaza
    2) people have made a cottage industry off this event and twist facts to suit their needs.

    Read the Bugliosi book and read the 'False Witness' on the Garrison persecution of Clay Shaw. Read the Gus Russo book which is the closet I've come to a conspiracy book that I can believe (basically LHO did it at the instigation of the Castro people).
    You'll come away with a different feel.
    This website is done by a former pro conspiracy fellow that has done a 180.
    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
    Last edited by johnny; 07-18-2008 at 10:13 AM.

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    seems like a no brainer to me (no pun intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanwench View Post
    Count me in, I agree 100%, too. The Zapruder film says all that's necessary about the point of origin of the head shot.
    That's true- I stood on the exact spot where Zapruder stood with his camera- about 15 feet from the oft-claimed location of the 2nd shooter. I've also stood 15 feet from a gun being fired without knowing it was about to happen- and I jumped about a foot in the air....
    funny that Zapruder did not have the same reaction recorded by him flinching while holding the camera....

    Could it be that *gasp* there was no shot fired from that location?

    Sorry Oliver Stone-

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff View Post
    That's true- I stood on the exact spot where Zapruder stood with his camera- about 15 feet from the oft-claimed location of the 2nd shooter. I've also stood 15 feet from a gun being fired without knowing it was about to happen- and I jumped about a foot in the air....
    funny that Zapruder did not have the same reaction recorded by him flinching while holding the camera....

    Could it be that *gasp* there was no shot fired from that location?

    Sorry Oliver Stone-
    Excellent point!

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    I just invested the last 2 months reading "Reclaiming History" by Bugliosi - I am finally convinced that LHO acted alone. No conspiracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff View Post
    That's true- I stood on the exact spot where Zapruder stood with his camera- about 15 feet from the oft-claimed location of the 2nd shooter. I've also stood 15 feet from a gun being fired without knowing it was about to happen- and I jumped about a foot in the air....
    funny that Zapruder did not have the same reaction recorded by him flinching while holding the camera....

    Could it be that *gasp* there was no shot fired from that location?

    Sorry Oliver Stone-
    I'll say that the reason Zapruder might not have jumped when a shot was fired from behind him is that the Time-Life release of Mr. Z's film has been through an extensive alteration.

    Take a look at this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0cBxPhLVOg

    If that doesn't sway one in any way, ask yourself a question: Why did Time-Life keep one the most historic films ever photographed under wraps for so long?
    The Strange Case Of The Missing Corpse
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-GmH8eFJFU

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    Quote Originally Posted by STRAIGHT View Post
    I think that he was caught in a 3 or 4 way crossfire from the book supository and the grassy knowl and the highway in front as well as a sewer drain that was level with the road. I think Oswald was involved but I don't believe he fired the kill shot. It came from the front. In fact here is a cool website that will stir up some shite.http://itwasjohnson.impiousdigest.com/index.htm
    Book "supository"?? HA!
    That made me laugh.
    (also sounds painful!)

    *depository.

    Side note, a few years ago Peter Jennings hosted a documentary on the assassination and that show covered Every aspect of the event. It came to the clear conclusion that in no way was there anyone more than Lee Harvey Oswald killing the President.
    (by the way, when a person gets shot, the head and body can move in Any direction so a shot from the back can indeed swing the head in a backward motion. The sewer location was an impossible feat. The road grade was too great and could Never allow a well aimed gun shot towards the car).
    Last edited by Tugboat25; 08-08-2008 at 02:10 PM.

  28. #28
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    The YouTube link I've previously posted is the most compelling analysis of the Z film. Once one views that vid, one can watch the Time-Life release of the Z film closely and see exactly the unexplainable movements of the limo's occupants, which tells me that the famous film has been "fx'ed" to help support lone shooter fairy tale. I would assume that's why Time-Life kept the film from the public for years.

    Anybody else care to comment on said YouTube vid?
    The Strange Case Of The Missing Corpse
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-GmH8eFJFU

    Mrs. Peel (commenting on Steed's sword): "That looks a bit droopy." Steed: "Wait until it's challenged."

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