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Thread: John Lennon

  1. #1
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    John Lennon

    What's your take on Mark David Chapman? A cold and calculating murderer with a chip on his shoulder, or a deranged "fan" who thought he was doing the world a favour by getting rid of "phonies"?

    You'll find as you get to know me that I am a HUGE Beatles fanatic, so maybe I'm not the best person to get an unbiased opinion from.

    However, MDC shattered a world's dreams and aspirations on December 8 1980. How can he be forgiven for that?

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    i think he was a bit of both to be honest, definite mental problems.
    He can't be forgiven and thats why he is in jail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by death_hag_slag View Post
    i think he was a bit of both to be honest, definite mental problems.
    He can't be forgiven and thats why he is in jail.
    Yeah, I'm with you. He was/is crazy, but not crazy enough to be let out of jail. There was still too much calculation involved in the whole thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firegilnotguns View Post
    Yeah, I'm with you. He was/is crazy, but not crazy enough to be let out of jail. There was still too much calculation involved in the whole thing.
    definitely

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by death_hag_slag View Post
    definitely
    I'm pretty sure IF he was ever let out, he'd be looking over his shoulder the rest of his (shortened!) life...

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    Yeah, Yeah, Yeah

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathGroupie View Post
    However, MDC shattered a world's dreams and aspirations on December 8 1980. How can he be forgiven for that?
    You know, I have to wonder about that...

    I mean, when Lennon and McCartney were teamed up together, they were an absolute world-beating team.

    But when I've listened to some of the, um, music they respectively cranked out post-Beatles, I'm not convinced that they were all that great when they were off "doing their own thing."

    (Think about it: how many times can you really listen to "Imagine" before feeling ill?)

    At any rate, I know that when Elvis died, (at 42) someone actually said it was a "good career move" on his part. And I'm not sure that Lennon would have been as fondly remembered if he hadn't "checked out" (albeit involuntarily) when he did.

    While I think of it: have any videos of him "lying in state" ever been posted online? This bit from the FAD entry on Lennon really grabbed me:

    Some people were actually able to get in video cameras (they were*rare* in 1980). (I would imagine this was an after hours deal). He had even mentioned how people had moved Lennon's mouth and made gestures of him going "Yeah, yeah, yeah".
    And you know those people didn't take that footage just to keep it to themselves.
    Last edited by ST Moron; 10-06-2007 at 03:20 AM. Reason: Paragraph break showed up in the wrong place...and because I am an anal-retentive completist.

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    The security at the Dakoda is part to blame. Basically giving our thier scheduale to weirdos n wackos hangin out by the font door.

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    There is a crazy (and in my opinion stupid) theory that Stephen King really killed Lennon and that MDC is taking the fall. I only mention it because there are websites devoted to this theory and some guy who claims that there are clues in Stephen King's novels and that he has personal correspondence that proves it. I'll try to find some links.

    Personally, I think that Mark David Chapman is just a psycho who decided to take out a celebrity. As fans, we want to make sense of this but it makes no sense.

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    http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.c...onspiracy.html

    I am fascinated by conspiracy theories. Even if i don't believe them.

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    This death was the first "real" memory that has stuck with me (I was turning 9 two days later). My mother has the "where were you when Kennedy was shot?" This has the same effect on me.

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    My first real memory of a celebrity dying was of course Elvis kinda like the world stopped that day! then John Lennon.. I was crushed because I really loved the Beatles..but as far as MDC I think he was just a twisted person with twisted ideas on how to solve the world problems and it really is tragic.
    Zombie kitteh is Hungry!!

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    Hi
    I hate to be a nag, but I just want to point out that John's family specifically requested that out of respect for John, no one ever speak his killer's name because all it did was give the murderer the fame and immortality he was seeking.
    Sorry again, don't want to be a nag, but it's been bothering me to see the killer's name plastered all over here. Don't be mad at me Death Hags, you know I love you guys . . . can we leave the jerk's name out of it though out of respect for John, one of the most amazing musicians in all of history?

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    I was 15 and in Juvenile Hall when I heard about John's death. I was sitting in my cell and the radio station that had playing over the intercom was an R&B station (this was in the Bay Area of California), and they interupted the soul song playing to announce it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HippieMama View Post
    Hi
    I hate to be a nag, but I just want to point out that John's family specifically requested that out of respect for John, no one ever speak his killer's name because all it did was give the murderer the fame and immortality he was seeking.
    Right there with you Mama. I won't even use that POS initials. Too bad that NY didn't have capital punishment as an option back in 1980.

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Fool Moon View Post
    Right there with you Mama. I won't even use that POS initials. Too bad that NY didn't have capital punishment as an option back in 1980.
    Thanks for posting that . . . I was nervous everyone would gang up on me. I'm glad to know others feel the way I do . . . and it really was a shame they didn't have capital punishment back then in New York.
    Thanks for your support.

    "You may say I'm a dreamer . . . but I'm not the only one."
    -J. Lennon, "Imagine"

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    The killer of John Lennon should never be released, for his own good. I've heard that he is kept in protective custody so his fellow prisoners don't kill him.

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    If he ever get out he'll last a hour

    Then the next nut job will be the one who killed the killer of JL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DownUnderDeathHag View Post
    The killer of John Lennon should never be released, for his own good. I've heard that he is kept in protective custody so his fellow prisoners don't kill him.
    Actually, he is eligilble for release but it has repeatedly been denied because he would surely be killed on the outside.

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    I don't see why they just let him out. Well, I do becasue we don't want to see another murder happen, but I can bring myself to see it as justifiable homicide.
    [SIZE=3]Erin[/SIZE]

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    I've heard reports that if he is ever released, he's vowed to go after the two surviving Beatles and "finish what he started".

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    WTF?! apparently he really is an idot. if he was to be let out he'd be shot two friggin minutes later. moron, geesh!
    [SIZE=3]Erin[/SIZE]

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    i always think of my mom's story of the day john lennon died. she was holding my brother and nearly dropped him. she was a lennon fanatic, he was always her favorite. she was such a fan that her headstone has a lyric from Imagine...



    From my rotting body, flowers shall grow and I am in them and that is eternity. ~Edvard Munch

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    Ok people if you want to read the most f****d up conspiracy theory EVER. Go to this website:

    jfkmontreal.com

    Be forewarned this is an e-book so there's pages and pages of the stuff. Yeah, we've all heard the FBI/CIA murdered John Lennon theory; but this guy takes the cake. He tries to prove that the US government not only assassinated John Lennon but (almost) every other musician that every lived. He even "proves" that the Manson Family were FIB dupes. Incredible. I found dozens of holes in his theory without even having to do much research...

    Probably should start a new thread if others here are interested. Scott.. I think you'll find it fascinating...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DownUnderDeathHag View Post
    The killer of John Lennon should never be released, for his own good. I've heard that he is kept in protective custody so his fellow prisoners don't kill him.
    Oh, now, give me one reason anyone should give a fig about protection for this psycho.
    Last edited by BeeCee; 01-07-2008 at 10:13 AM.
    I'm not evil - I'm just drawn that way!

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    my sentiments, exactly.
    [SIZE=3]Erin[/SIZE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCee View Post
    [SIZE=3]Oh, now, give me one reason anyone should give a fig about protection for this psycho.[/SIZE]
    Simple: it's called "liability."

    Nutcase or not, MDC prolly has relatives somewhere. Relatives that, I'm sure, would be happy to sue the beejeezus out of the prison system for not taking "reasonable care" to safeguard his life.

    And in MDC's case, "reasonable care" probably entails keeping him in isolation from all the other prisoners.

    If you think about, though, it's kind of ironic: from what I can tell, MDC wanted to make some sort of "name" for himself by killing John Lennon. And, let's face it, he has.

    The problem, of course, is that anyone who kills him will also be able to "make a name" for himself by doing so.

    Don't read this wrong: I'm not gung-ho about anyone dying needlessly. I'm just pointing out that killing other people to gain fame may not necessarily be the best strategy for achieving fame yourself.

    From what I can tell, dead people have no way whatsoever of deriving pleasure from fame.

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    I don't understand the question really. I don't feel he had a reason or that John was a phony. There are just some people out here that ar spiteful and jealous so they ruin other people's lives. I think that is the better explination for is actions.
    Who Better to laugh at what's inapproriate than me? Politically incorrect people like myself enjoy undaunted humor.


    That lady was my grandma who past away 2 years ago. She was young and angry in this picture though lol. I guess someone needs to get out there and shovel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ST Moron View Post
    Simple: it's called "liability."
    Yep...I was just popping off...I don't advocate murder. Apparently Mr. Lennon didn't care much for the idea of killing either. Joking aside - I wouldn't want anyone to sink to this level just for the sake of revenge. I think he'll get what he deserves eventually - if he hasn't to some degree already.
    Last edited by BeeCee; 01-07-2008 at 10:15 AM.
    I'm not evil - I'm just drawn that way!

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    conspiracy theory

    Years ago on the "Tomorow Show" there was a guy who said the Mob did in Janis, Jimmy, Brian Jones, Morrison and Brain Epstein because they wanted control of the millions. I don't know but it makes more sense than the FBI. They were sending a message to the Stones and the Beatles. That was about the time the Beatles broke up over who would manage them. Who knows. I think it was just kids with high powered drugs.

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    when I heard

    I was in the sixth form in Birkenhead (across the Mersey from Liverpool) where I grew up when a lad called Andy Jones asked whether I'd heard the news. It was the first morning I hadn't listened to the news on the radio in months and I didn't believe him. When I had it confirmed I left school for the day and walked the 2 miles home. People were walking around with radios to their ears listening to all his and the Beatles tunes, and that was about 10am UK time in Merseyside. Very sad day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by candleinthewind View Post
    Actually, he is eligilble for release but it has repeatedly been denied because he would surely be killed on the outside.
    I actually signed a petition against his release that a guy had on youtube, or had a link on there, just the other week that waste of blood was up for parole again u could also view all the people who had signed lot of signatures on there.. from all over the world..
    Last edited by dirk diggler; 10-10-2007 at 02:51 AM.

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    I think out of all the celeb deaths, this one really gets my blood boiling. How senseless.
    ~SinKitty

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    Quote Originally Posted by onehunglow View Post
    Years ago on the "Tomorow Show" there was a guy who said the Mob did in Janis, Jimmy, Brian Jones, Morrison and Brain Epstein because they wanted control of the millions. I don't know but it makes more sense than the FBI. They were sending a message to the Stones and the Beatles. That was about the time the Beatles broke up over who would manage them. Who knows. I think it was just kids with high powered drugs.
    I actually remember that from my days as a late night tv freak.

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    Here's a Question

    Lennon's killer said he finally realized that he had not just killed the rock star John Lennon but he had destroyed the life of a father, brother, lover ...etc. That being said it is also important to realize that Lennon's killer is a person too and although what he did was senseless...honestly any murder of anyone is really senseless. Does the American Justice System believe in the ability for these people to be reformed or are they merely human storage facilities? I imagine Lennon's Killer would be a fool to want out...however does he have a right to be released? Is it Lennon's stature as a celebrity that makes his murder more important than any other murder? thus his killers ability to reform impossible?....just a couple of questions.....I hate the Bastard too!

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    I used to walk past the Dakota whenever I was in NYC and the place is creepy. There is a weird stillness in the air which even my husband noticed and he had no idea about the significance of the building because he's not familiar with the area. I always get the heebie jeebies when I see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smugpuppet View Post
    Lennon's killer said he finally realized that he had not just killed the rock star John Lennon but he had destroyed the life of a father, brother, lover ...etc. That being said it is also important to realize that Lennon's killer is a person too and although what he did was senseless...honestly any murder of anyone is really senseless. Does the American Justice System believe in the ability for these people to be reformed or are they merely human storage facilities? I imagine Lennon's Killer would be a fool to want out...however does he have a right to be released? Is it Lennon's stature as a celebrity that makes his murder more important than any other murder? thus his killers ability to reform impossible?....just a couple of questions.....I hate the Bastard too!
    I understand what you are saying. It really depends if he is 'crazy' which I think he is. I mean, are his mental issues under control? And if so, whos to say something wont trigger him to do another murder to add to his noteriety..(sp) Just my 2 cents.
    ~SinKitty

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathGroupie View Post
    MDC shattered a world's dreams and aspirations on December 8 1980. How can he be forgiven for that?
    The only person he should hope to be forgiven by is God. I don't think he will get much forgiveness from the public and/or Yoko/Sean/Jullian. Yoko actually said she wasn't ready to forgive and doesn't want MDC to be released due to the fact that John is still dead, why should he get his freedom? on top of the fact that her & her family will never feel safe if he were walking the streets again (no matter how reformed he seems).

    I don't think anybody who murders so senselessly should ever have their freedom back.
    Last edited by Jason; 10-10-2007 at 12:41 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by knothere View Post
    The security at the Dakoda is part to blame. Basically giving our thier scheduale to weirdos n wackos hangin out by the font door.
    I think John Lennon was fully to blame. A guy of that celebrity should not be walking around New York City so freely without any kind of security. His need for a normal life is what did him in.


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    The murderer has since "found God" and is married and enjoys conjugal visits with his wife.

    Jason, a very valid point, but back in those days, most celebs didn't walk around with 15 bodygaurds like they do today. Different era. Granted, he didn't keep a low profile at all, though.

    I've read the Stephen King theories and they are so wild ass crazy, off the wall, totally improbable, they are funny.

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    I think the important thing to concentrate on is not how he died - but where is he buried?

    Yoko let it slip some 15 years ago in an interview that he was buried, but even Zappa's grave was discovered just two months after his funeral (I know, I was the first one to publish the location!)

    But having personally visited, documented, and photographed over 1,000 musician gravesites, this would be the Holy Grail!!

    Scott S.
    aka the Tombstone Tourist
    author of The Tombstone Tourist - Musicans
    (now available used on Amazon.com for about $2.00)

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    I thought I heard somewhere that he was cremated and rumored that some of his ashes were scattered in that Strawberry Fields section of that park in New York?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aries65 View Post
    I thought I heard somewhere that he was cremated and rumored that some of his ashes were scattered in that Strawberry Fields section of that park in New York?
    False. Just a rumor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tombstone Tourist View Post
    False. Just a rumor.
    Thanks for clearing that one up! And thanks for a great book! I loved it - and own it!

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    John was cremated though, and quite quickly if I remember rightly - I think because they didn't want people trying to get PM photos of John, which is fair enough. His ashes were given to Yoko, but nothing was ever reported as to what she did with them.


    My Sweet George Feb 25 1943 - November 29 2001
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    I'm with you on this one, there's far too much spoken about that lowlife, which gives him the fame he so craved when he shot John.

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    I thought Yoko still had John's ashes.

    Has anyone heard from Julian lately? How is he doing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie View Post
    I thought Yoko still had John's ashes.

    Has anyone heard from Julian lately? How is he doing?
    Yeah, I always heard Yoko was holding on to his ashes.

    The last I heard about Julian is that he recently sold his share of his rights to his father's songs. I guess he's hard up for money these days...

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    I have pics of John on the slab. I'm giving them to Scott

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadRinger View Post
    John was cremated though, and quite quickly if I remember rightly - I think because they didn't want people trying to get PM photos of John, which is fair enough. His ashes were given to Yoko, but nothing was ever reported as to what she did with them.

    I got the original rag before they were pulled off the market with John on the slab. I may as well give it to someone that can really share it. I've had it in my Beatle collection since Dec 1980.

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    petition

    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler View Post
    I actually signed a petition against his release that a guy had on youtube, or had a link on there, just the other week that waste of blood was up for parole again u could also view all the people who had signed lot of signatures on there.. from all over the world..
    Yeah beatleologist posted it, I signed it as well, he linked it to my tribute video for John Lennon
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoMgfp7SeoA

    of course I could just post the link to his vid, but his is a response to mine you can find it there
    EDIT
    nevermind, he removed it i just checked... here's his video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC5YYdH0RIo
    Last edited by a_team_rerun; 10-15-2007 at 06:48 PM. Reason: new info
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    John Lennon as he was


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