Senior Death Hag
Wow, I never have heard of this case. Poor litlte girl. That is amazing that you got his rv on tape.
Renowned Death Hag
This was a local case, San Diego. I find myself interested in cases within Ca and SD, (Chelsea King, James Arthur Ray, Scott Peterson, etc.)
If interested you can scroll back and find a post by someone who mentions he saw Westerfields RV in the desert and was interviewed by police.
I feel so much sorrow for this child whose end could not have been pleasant.
"I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but I see you are unarmed." William Shakespeare
Renowned Death Hag
Any trial transcripts or anything?
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
Junior Death Hag
The trial transcripts can be found here: http://www.unposted.com/trial/Originally Posted by Miho
and a book on the case here: http://tinyurl.com/6bzzyf4
Renowned Death Hag
Thanks much and welcome!
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
Junior Death Hag
Glad I could help, and thanks for the welcome.
Junior Death Hag
Quote: "One of the things that really haunted me was that when her body was found, she had been punched in the mouth so hard that her teeth were down her throat."
There weren’t any teeth down her throat. You are obviously thinking of the one tooth which was found in the back of her mouth. The forensic odontologist (the renowned Dr Skip Sperber), testified there was no trauma to her lips, mouth, oral cavity, teeth or the surrounding bone, so it’s most unlikely she was punched in the mouth. You are probably thinking of his explanation of an unfavorable root/crown ratio, and the examples he gave: being hit with a softer object and a playground accident. But he didn’t say this had happened to Danielle: he believed that her teeth were missing because of decomposition.
Quote: "I also think it was disgusting to drag the parents through the mud because of their lifestyle choices ... it was nobody's business how they lived their personal lives."
The intruder gained access to the house through the unlocked side garage door. It was unlocked because the parents and their friends had been in the garage that night, smoking marijuana. Once inside the garage, the intruder had free access to the house, as the lock on the house-garage door had been reversed. It had been reversed so their children wouldn’t walk in on them while they were smoking marijuana. I don’t want to upset anyone, but there is therefore a clear link between the parents’ lifestyle choices and the loss of their daughter.
Senior Death Hag
This case has haunted me for years. Does anyone know an update on the family or anything? I wonder if they moved.
"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will." ~Mahatma Gandhi
Junior Death Hag
They did move, but I can’t remember exactly when or to where. It was about two years afterwards, and they didn’t move far, I’m sure they are still in or near Poway.
Senior Death Hag
As parents we all make stupid mistakes. Did Danielle's parents cause her death? I say not. I think the killer would have found a way to get to her sooner or later.
Death Hag Extraordinaire
I agree, Pepper. They lived a much different lifestyle than a lot of people and did things that I wouldn't do, but they loved their children and provided well for them and were devastated by Danielle being kidnapped and murdered by that disgusting pervert. There are plenty of horrible parents that cook meth with their children in the house and neglect and abuse their children and those children don't end up brutally murdered. I don't agree with the pot smoking, but at least they were discreet about it and fixed the door to where the children wouldn't walk in and catch them smoking it. I'm sure they go through the "what ifs" everyday of their lives.
Renowned Death Hag
The motive is simply this: He is a pedophile. A Predator. Predators are opportunists, they ingratiate you with their kindness and sparkling personality so they can gain access to your children. The child porn on his computer that he tried to throw his son under the bus for tells you everything you need to know about this sick bastard! Sadly, I'll be long gone from this earth before he is ever executed in my home state of California.
Renowned Death Hag
One of Westerfields atourneys was my client for many years (Robert Boyce). I had no idea until I ran into Stephen Feldman one day while meeting with Boyce. I added a photo (guy with glasses) but it looks like you have to click on it to see it.
Junior Death Hag
He told Danielle’s mother (Brenda) he held adult parties, which she interpreted at the time to mean he was also a swinger (and she laughed about it when she phoned her husband immediately afterwards), but under questioning at the trial, she backtracked and said she thought he just meant parties with alcohol and without children - which is probably what he did mean.
Their swinging could have led a lot of strange people into their house, but they apparently only did a limited amount. That being the case, I would be more concerned about the drunken and provocative behavior of Brenda and her two girlfriends at the bar that night (including propositioning strangers). Brenda told her friends the previous week that they were probably making everybody horny. But again this was apparently not typical behavior.
I don’t know of any claim Westerfield had ever taped their house. The suspicion was that he spied on them because, if he stood in his bathtub, and pushed out the window screen, he could have seen part of their back yard through the trees. But there was no evidence he had ever done so.
Junior Death Hag
She was found by volunteer searchers, organized originally by the Laura Recovery Center.
Junior Death Hag
When young girls are kidnapped, they are typically killed within four hours. But in this case, it was five hours before Westerfield even got to his RV, and Danielle must have been alive to leave her handprint there. (Unless it was left at an earlier time, or the fingerprint examiner misidentified it, as happens sometimes, such as with Brandon Mayfield.) The prosecution hinted that they thought she was still alive more than a day later. And, according to the entomology evidence, she probably only died about two weeks later.
Junior Death Hag
That sounds like John Couey, who kidnapped Jessica Lunsford.
Junior Death Hag
The reason they gave was to disassociate from his NAME.
Junior Death Hag
That is what some media reported, but there was no supporting evidence. On the contrary, various law enforcement personnel said it didn’t smell of cleaning fluid, didn’t look like it had been recently cleaned, and there was even a very fine layer of dust throughout the interior.
Junior Death Hag
He was the first witness on Day 8.
I’m not sure what value this video had for the prosecution, as it merely provided visual confirmation of what Westerfield had told the police at his first interview. But it was valuable for the defense, as it showed the RV curtains were open, so anyone could see inside and some people did. It was also valuable for me in that the media had reported that the RV was stuck in sand dunes, whereas this video shows that the area was flat.
Junior Death Hag
Westerfield had been stuck before. Both koolstrike’s friend and the other four campers who testified at the trial, all said that it’s not unusual for people to get stuck, some had even been stuck themselves, and the tow-truck driver who pulled Westerfield out makes a living partly by freeing stuck vehicles.
Junior Death Hag
He told a friend that he was simply collecting the images so he could send them to Congress as examples of smut on the Internet. He had also previously said that there was a big controversy about kids being able to access porn on the Internet, so he wanted to see for himself how much information he could get without paying, and he made a collection of different types, to document what was possible, and he wasn’t doing that any more.
The evidence is consistent with that explanation. There was only a small quantity of the "questionable" images (that’s the term used by the prosecution expert). Most of the images shown to the jury were in one folder on just one Zip disk, while the worst images, the video clips, were on just one CD-ROM. And based on the trial testimony, most of the "questionable" images were downloaded in 1999, and they had been seldom viewed since being downloaded, nor had they been recently viewed.
Senior Death Hag
Beside the simply facts what really makes me mad about this entire event was that his lawyers were permitted to lie in court. Many have argued with me that the lawyers can not lie but I disagree and I use this case as an example.
To avoid the death penalty Westerfield agreed to tell the police where he buried her. That is, he admitted that he killed her and was trying to cop a plea by using this as his only bargaining tool. Luckily her body was found before there was any agreement. All an around about way to note that his lawyers knew he did it.
O.K., I understand (but disagree) about why his confession could not be used at trial. His lawyers did use the argument about the parents lifestyle and proposed the argument that it could have been one of the parents swingers friends that had done it. The lawyers knew that it couldn't have been, that it was their client.
The lawyers should have been charged with perjury or whatever they legally would call their lie.
Junior Death Hag
There was an outcry at the time, but it soon died down as it was determined that his lawyers hadn’t broken any rules, they didn’t cross the line. It is an adversarial system, and the job of defense lawyers is to make the prosecution prove their case.
The vast majority of cases are settled by plea deals, so it is very likely that there were negotiations in this case. But the balance of evidence indicates that it was the prosecution that made an offer to the defense, and not the other way round. We do know that he didn’t tell the police where the body was. (By the way, she wasn’t buried.)
Junior Death Hag
It was late Saturday evening that Westerfield arrived, and he probably didn’t bring his ATVs because it’s not worth the trouble if you are alone, you’re only going for a weekend, and you are hoping to meet up with friends and use their ATVs.
He does have a propensity to sweat (perhaps because he’s a bit overweight), but even if not, he had just been trying to dig his RV out, which is heavy work.
koolstrike’s friend testified to going to sleep at about 11:00 p.m. (on redirect examination he changed that to 11:30), and Westerfield hadn’t yet arrived. He (Westerfield) had made a cell-phone call at 10:26 from the vicinity of Imperial Valley, which is about the time he would have arrived at Glamis based on his timeline, so it’s not unreasonable to suppose that he had just arrived at Glamis and made the call before going off into the desert. He then spent some time driving up the various washes in an unsuccessful attempt to find his friends, so he would have arrived at koolstrike’s wash (Wash 14) after 11:00.
That 1:50 a.m. wasn’t mentioned during the trial. On the contrary, although koolstrike’s friend said he is not a sound sleeper, he didn't remember hearing another vehicle pull up, even though Westerfield had passed within about fifty yards, and he did not come in while they were awake.
Junior Death Hag
19 hairs probably from the van Dams’ Weimaraner were found in Westerfield’s house and 5 in his RV.
The prosecution argued that the dog hairs got onto Danielle’s pajamas, and were carried to first his house and then his RV on those pajamas when he kidnapped her. The weakness in that argument is that there would undoubtedly also have been dog hairs on her daytime clothes when she visited him earlier that week selling cookies. And on her mother’s clothes and her younger brother’s clothes, as they accompanied her. And just as some of those hairs would have been shed from her pajamas, so some would have been shed into his house from the daytime clothes of those three people. It’s also perfectly possible that a few of those hairs now in his house, would then have been transferred from his house to his RV. They might have been transferred on his laundry, or on his clothes - or even on the clothing of the two detectives who went from his house to his RV on the Monday morning. And one of those detectives had been in the van Dam house on the Sunday, where she might have picked up more dog hairs.
Senior Death Hag
Even having just one image of child porn, or just one movie, still is TOO much and a man or woman should not have any thing like that. I dont care if he hadnt watched the video since 1920. Why did he have it?? It was not to help congress get child pornographers. Thats the excuse that all child porn watchers say. Come on. LOLThere was only a small quantity of the "questionable" images (that’s the term used by the prosecution expert). Most of the images shown to the jury were in one folder on just one Zip disk, while the worst images, the video clips, were on just one CD-ROM. And based on the trial testimony, most of the "questionable" images were downloaded in 1999, and they had been seldom viewed since being downloaded, nor had they been recently viewed.
Im just wondering, Curiosity, are you the preacherfordeaf person that was on the youtube comments? I just cant imagine too many people sticking up for this guy.
Senior Death Hag
They lied.
He didn't tell because she was found before the negotiations were concluded.The vast majority of cases are settled by plea deals, so it is very likely that there were negotiations in this case. But the balance of evidence indicates that it was the prosecution that made an offer to the defense, and not the other way round. We do know that he didn’t tell the police where the body was. (By the way, she wasn’t buried.)
Junior Death Hag
A co-worker of the detective who testified declared that the images WEREN’T child porn. The defense naturally wanted him to testify to this, but the prosecution objected and the judge wouldn’t allow it.
These "questionable" images were introduced by the prosecution as evidence of motive for kidnapping and murder, and they are seen as motive by the members here. I gave facts which show that these images are weak evidence of motive.
Junior Death Hag
There was no evidence that he’d had his eye on her for some time. In fact, the only evidence he ever had his eye on her is the belief that he kidnapped and murdered her.
The fact that some people think revenge was the motive is confirmation that there is only weak evidence for sex being the motive. And the child’s own mother was uncertain if he was after her (the mother) or the babysitter. So even she must have had doubts as to the relevance of those "child porn" images. And their babysitter was a boy, so she (the mother) must have suspected Westerfield was actually gay.
Junior Death Hag
That’s one possibility. Another possibility is that he didn’t know where the body was, so he couldn’t tell anyone. He spent virtually the whole of Tuesday, 5th, retracing his weekend trip with two detectives. At the end of that, both detectives believed he was ready to make a deal. Yet three weeks later it still hadn’t been concluded. Despite the fact that it was certain the body would be found, and probably sooner rather than later. Because it wasn’t buried or hidden, and was in a place used by the public (to dump trash), and Danielle was the focus of the biggest search in the history of San Diego County. So if he knew the location, it was in his interest to make a deal as quickly as possible.
I presume you mean the defense lawyers lied. But in that case, the legal experts who supported them or declined to take action against them, were lying when they said they (the defense lawyers) hadn’t done anything wrong.
Junior Death Hag
Westerfield’s appeal has barely begun. The opening brief was only filed last December, and Law Enforcement’s response isn’t due yet (but is due soon).
Junior Death Hag
There have been many child abuse/pornography rings, but the most relevant one that I know of was busted by Operation Hamlet. Parents were accused of sexually molesting their own children and children in their care, and 12 of the victims were in San Diego County: they were aged 7 to 10 and were mostly girls. And one of those parents was from Poway (which is where Westerfield and the van Dams lived), and he was arrested on February 15, 2002. That same day, Danielle’s mother received an anonymous phone call saying Danielle was still alive. And, according to the entomology evidence, Danielle most likely died the next day or the day after. Of course, that could just have been a series of coincidences.
Senior Death Hag
Right.
Junior Death Hag
I’ve already replied to the "pedo rings" issue; I will now reply to the "messing with the evidence" issue.
It is suspicious that the most compelling item of evidence, the bloodstain on Westerfield’s jacket, wasn’t seen by the dry-cleaners, even though it was on a prominent part of the jacket. Making it even more suspicious is that one of the two suspect detectives (with a questionable history and who attempted to violate Westerfield’s constitutional rights) was also a customer at that dry-cleaners, and his name was apparently on the "chain of custody" for that jacket, and near the top of that document. Worse, the crime lab didn’t examine that stain for blood spatter, and they sent extracted DNA, not the actual stain, to an outside laboratory for confirmation testing. (And even though that was the "smoking gun", the media didn’t publish a photo of that stain, just a photo of the entire jacket, and the stain can’t be seen on it.)
And the second most compelling evidence item, the drop of blood on the motor home carpet, wasn’t photographed or measured (so they didn’t follow procedure). And when first tested, it didn’t give a result for one of the DNA markers (so it might have been an old stain, starting to degrade), but the second test did give a result for that marker (even though you can’t undegrade biological material).
I’m not saying there was any "messing with the evidence" - I don’t know, the above evidence isn’t conclusive - but there is cause for concern.
Junior Death Hag
Not to mention that searchers had searched this area on the previous Saturday and found nothing. Westerfield was already under a 24/7 watch so he couldn't have placed her body there. A call was made by an "unnamed source" to search the area again. Anyone find this strange?
Junior Death Hag
It was the DA who made the plea deal offer...not Westerfield's lawyers.
[SIZE=3][/SIZE][SIZE=3]http://www.kusi.com/video?clipId=6611716&autostart=true[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=3][/SIZE][SIZE=3]Video where Pfingst states he was minutes away from tryingto work out a deal [/SIZE]
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