King Ludwig II

[Sam]

Herrenchiemsee monastery:
Herrenchiemsee Benedictine Abbey was established about 765 at the northern peak of the Herreninsel by Duke Tassilo.

[Sam]

State Staircase.
The odd thing about this was when I was there in 1967 this was all we saw. At the end of the tour in 2005 we left through the mirror image of this staircase, but it was only bare red brick and wooden stairs. You could see pencil marks all over the walls left there from the 1800's.

[Linnie]

Can you imagine having to install, or light all those frigging candles?

Heck, catching the drippings must have been a full-time job. Kept some ordinary people gainfully employed, at any rate.

P.S., here's a prettied-up portrait of Ludwig Victor, who did well to keep those chin whiskers going in his later years.

[Greg King]

And you have to remember that Ludwig lived in Herrenchiemsee for all of seven nights!

[Sam]

And you have to remember that Ludwig lived in Herrenchiemsee for all of seven nights!

I remember in your book you stated that he walked the halls at night. (As he had reverted to sleeping during the day, and staying awake all night.) And that when he tapped his cane on a piece of statuary it broke, as it was only made of plaster, faux painted to look like marble. He threw a fit at all the fake items (as his money was running out) and demanded to leave the next day.
I've always wondered why he didn't take all the money he waisted on Herrenchiemsee, and use it to finish Neuschwanstein?
When you go to the back side of Herrenchiemsee it looks almost like a movie prop, bare and unfinished.

[Sam]

Heck, catching the drippings must have been a full-time job. Kept some ordinary people gainfully employed, at any rate.

P.S., here's a prettied-up portrait of Ludwig Victor, who did well to keep those chin whiskers going in his later years.

I'll bet it was hard to keep those chin whiskers, while wearing a pretty dress!

[Greg King]

There wasn't any more left to save to spend elsewhere! He only had money to spend on the various buildings because he borrowed it, and when that ran out issued notes promising to pay and offering various items of the Bavarian Crown estates, properties, etc., as collateral. THIS, probably more than the fact that people just thought he was too strange, was why they eventually removed him.

[Sam]

I've looked for it, and can't find it, but I once saw a photo of Neuscwanstein taken after Ludwig's death, and was surprised to see scaffolding and cranes still working on it.
The chapel and at least one of the towers were never completed. I would LOVE to be able to see parts of the interior that were never finished like I saw at Herrencheimsee.

The throne room at Neuschwanstein, the throne was never built;

[Greg King]

Last time I was there I was lucky to have a private tour because of researching rewriting the Ludwig book. And so got to see all of the bits not open to the public including a lot of rooms/corridors not finished-and though interesting to see they themselves are not that exciting! It was more exciting to be able to climb up the tower and out onto the top balcony, to wander through it when it was EMPTY, to be able to sit on Ludwig's bed, etc. I think they now include one of the half-finished rooms-which was to be the Moorish bath-in the tour.

[Sam]

Last time I was there I was lucky to have a private tour because of researching rewriting the Ludwig book. And so got to see all of the bits not open to the public including a lot of rooms/corridors not finished-and though interesting to see they themselves are not that exciting! It was more exciting to be able to climb up the tower and out onto the top balcony, to wander through it when it was EMPTY, to be able to sit on Ludwig's bed, etc. I think they now include one of the half-finished rooms-which was to be the Moorish bath-in the tour.

Didn't they chase him up the stairs before they arrested him in his bedroom?
I was so glad to have read this in your book, before I visited the last time, while I looked for the "Pineapple" at the top of the staircase.

[Greg King]

Yes-they were waiting at the top of the tower and once he started up came in after him up the stairs.

It's actually a PALM tree at the top, but I don't expect anyone to be as obsessive as I am (I don't know if he was wearing matching bikini panties and bra when he died!)

[Sam]

Yes-they were waiting at the top of the tower and once he started up came in after him up the stairs.

It's actually a PALM tree at the top, but I don't expect anyone to be as obsessive as I am (I don't know if he was wearing matching bikini panties and bra when he died!)

LOL!
What DID become of the clothes Ludwig was wearing the night he died? Did someone examine them for bullet holes?
There's a guy in Germany who's a Ludwig fanatic. He's tried to have Ludwig's casket opened with no success, and even tried to have it X rayed to see if there are bullets in him.
Was it you that said a guard who stood watch over the casket said Ludwig appeared yellow and wax like? (A La Valentino) I think the guy in Germany even tried to say that Ludwig wasn't even in the casket, and later a skeleton was found in the walls of Berg Castle.

[Greg King]

LOL!
What DID become of the clothes Ludwig was wearing the night he died? Did someone examine them for bullet holes?
There's a guy in Germany who's a Ludwig fanatic. He's tried to have Ludwig's casket opened with no success, and even tried to have it X rayed to see if there are bullets in him.
Was it you that said a guard who stood watch over the casket said Ludwig appeared yellow and wax like? (A La Valentino) I think the guy in Germany even tried to say that Ludwig wasn't even in the casket, and later a skeleton was found in the walls of Berg Castle.

Supposedly the clothes were burned-to disguise evidence of the King's death. There have been all kinds of stories about if he was there dead, if they used a corpse with a wax mask of the King's face, if the coffin was empty, etc. I used to believe all of this-now, I think not. I am still not entirely sure how Ludwig died but I am pretty sure, after more research, he is indeed in the coffin in the Michaelskirche in Munich.

[Sam]

I too believe he's dead, but under what circumstances?
I believe there was a plan to rescue him from Berg Castle, but did it go awry, concluding with his murder?
And what were his last correspondences with his cousin Elisabeth?
Was she really waiting on him in a carriage for her "Eagle" to return to her "Dove"?

[Greg King]

Supposedly. I mean, yes, there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that a rescue might have been planned. But all of the "evidence" of murder seems now, to me, somewhat less than compelling. It's possible, but there are a lot of disparate stories-and you can't take them all together to say, "Aha! Look at the evidence," because more often than not they all contradict each other-and presuming it was murder, then there should be some overlap of detail in what various parties allege they saw or heard. There were plenty of reasons to kill him, but the evidence is too contradictory to reach any conclusion

[Nelliebean]

Bump for Sam's libido.

[Demgirl]

Greg, it looks as though I'm going to have to order this book of yours also. I was up late last night reading your book on Queen Victoria. Great stories, great writing. Thanks!

[Barbossa]

This reminds me of the computer game "Gabriel Knight 2", which was based heavily on Ludwig II.

[Barbossa]

No mention has been made of Ludwig II's greatest architectural achievement:

[Barbossa]

About five years ago, they found-unfortunately for those still in doubt-absolute proof in letters that Ludwig had indeed been sexually active with men; before this, many people would run with the "He may have been gay but he would NEVER have acted on it" kind of reasoning. And so now they had to confront the fact. But even so they have continued to insist that these letters prove nothing more than that he had sex with men only later in his life-they refuse to accept that it happened earlier-just in the last 6 years, when they postulate he was in a drug-induced haze all of the time (and therefore conveniently not responsible, presumably). It remains massively controversial.

The doubters need to see Mel Brooks' "History of the World". Then they would realize that "It's good to be the King".

[ichabodius]

The doubters need to see Mel Brooks' "History of the World". Then they would realize that "It's good to be the King".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZKiY...eature=related

[Andrea]

I went to Neuschwanstein as a child, and was it ever spectacular. He had the most elaborately carved bed. I remember the throne room as well. I still have a postcard with his photo that I bought there. I think it's the same one that Greg has as his avatar.

Andrea

[tutter1234]

Great infos on here!
I grew up right next to the Chiemsee and still living near . But shame it's been years that I visited!

[Sam]

Great infos on here!
I grew up right next to the Chiemsee and still living near . But shame it's been years that I visited!

WOW! I envy you, I would LOVE to live there, we camped near the Chiemsee when I was a child. I would love to live in Fussen, it's the most beautiful place I've ever been to.

[Greg King]

You must be near to Schloss Seeon then, as well-beautiful country. Spent a few days there working on a book on Anna Anderson, the woman who claimed to be Anastasia (her ashes are in the small cemetery there).

If I can dig them out I will post a few bits of some of Ludwig's unpublished letters from the 1860s to Empress Marie Alexandrovna of Russia-absolutely fascinating-they make the Duke of Windsor's letters to Wallis Simpson seem positely grown up in comparison.

[Sam]

Greg, I'd LOVE to see those!

[Greg King]

OK, here are a few bits. These come from unpublished letters from Ludwig II to Empress Marie Alexandrovna [a relative-note that his continued references to her as "Mother" indicate his hated of his own mother] in my possession.

August 10, 1864: "Dear Mother! From the bottom of my heart I beg your forgiveness because I dare to call you so, but I can't! I can't! I can't do otherwise-my thoughts and feelings are always! Always! directed to you. Allow me, dear Mother, to thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the love and kindness you have shown me. I felt blessed to be near you. I will confer with you, Angel, on everything-Oh! How much I have locked in side of me. It would be good for my heart and spirit to tell you. If only I could take all your pain and sorrow! I would collapse in delight at your burdens, knowing that no other death would be more welcome!"


August 8, 1865: "Forgive me that I burden you so soon again with a letter, but my worship of you will justify this step! It is the pleasure of my heart to know you will touch this letter."

September 16, 1865: "I cannot tell you how I long to see you again. I renew my promise that I will do whatever lies in my strength not to let my Mother know everything I feel for you, that a son should feel for his mother!"

April 23, 1866: "I would be terribly unhappy if you were upset with me. My precious devotion to you and love for you, expressed in my last letter, has I hope not made you uncomfortable. Please, please forgive me, but I am in pain."

July 19, 1867: "Oh, soon it will be three years since I enjoyed the unforgettable time we spent together, which is my most precious memory of days...I feel as close to you as a son to his mother and I love you as childishly and sincerely as your own children. Oh, during our happy times together I first learnt what it was to have I mother I can truly love...Each word from you is like honey to me, and I feel as strengthened as by taking the Sacraments."

OK-it goes on and on and on-I have dozens of these but you get the point-he's full of secrets, hates his mother, and worships older, married women and this one specifically.

[tutter1234]

Been to Füssen quite a few times also! It really is beautiful there!
And I remember the Hotel I stayed in situated on a mountain above the town. Haven't had time to visit the castle though cause I stayed there for work.

WOW! I envy you, I would LOVE to live there, we camped near the Chiemsee when I was a child. I would love to live in Fussen, it's the most beautiful place I've ever been to.

[tutter1234]

Yes! I grew up just 15 min away from Seeon! Actually I married right there and my wedding pics have been taken in the Schloss and on the stairs there!
I also visited the grave of Ana Anderson many times!

You must be near to Schloss Seeon then, as well-beautiful country. Spent a few days there working on a book on Anna Anderson, the woman who claimed to be Anastasia (her ashes are in the small cemetery there).

If I can dig them out I will post a few bits of some of Ludwig's unpublished letters from the 1860s to Empress Marie Alexandrovna of Russia-absolutely fascinating-they make the Duke of Windsor's letters to Wallis Simpson seem positely grown up in comparison.

[Sam]

Greg, thank you for posting those. I think you've just touched the "tip of the iceberg" as to what a complicated man Ludwig II was.
Was it in your book that I read where a solder would spend the evening with the king and show up the next day in formation with an expensive ring on?
The officers would just ignore it knowing what must have happened durring the previous evening.

[Greg King]

Yeah-this happened a lot...I am tryting to find the one letter Ludwig wrote to her after he made his "big confession," because it's revealing-of course we don't know what the confession was but can guess I suppose

[Greg King]

Ah! Here is is "confession" letter to the Empress:

April 2, 1869: "You were so full of kindness and the most lovely grace that it is completely impossible for me to find the words to explain my feelings, which inflame my heart. If I could only describe how incredibly happy you made me by your presence here....Each of your words, also those so mildly angry, so lovingly scolding, are deeply imbedded in my soul, they are precious and sacred to me like the Gospel. No one can honor, love and worship you as I do. No one in the world comes close to being as loved by me as I love you and I will never love anyone like this again, anyone....Don't be angry with me about my confession, which I have wanted to make for some time. You can punish and torture me but you can never destroy and tear away from my soul this love for you, which makes me so happy. I pray to God that I will receive the grace you mentioned. Be patient with me and don't judge me-please. I have not changed my thinking about you despite your words and I will try to live according to your advice, believe me. You know how difficult this is for me, because by nature I keep everything deep inside, but with God's help I will succeed in doing better and recognizing the sin. The best intention to change is the first step toward improvement."

So we can figure out what he's talking about here without much effort I think

[FredAdam]

Ludwig’s castles


The coat of arms of King Ludwig over the entrance to Schloss Neuschwanstein.


Ludwig was notably eccentric in ways that made serving as Bavaria’s head of state problematic. He disliked large public functions and avoided formal social events whenever possible, and preferred a life of fantasy that he pursued with various creative projects. These idiosyncrasies caused tension with the king's government ministers, but did not cost him popularity among common Bavarians. The king enjoyed traveling in the Bavarian countryside and chatting with farmers and laborers he met along the way. He also delighted in rewarding those who were hospitable to him during his travels with lavish gifts. He is still remembered in Bavaria as Unser Kini, which means "our darling king" in the Bavarian dialect.
Ludwig also used his personal fortune to fund the construction of a series of elaborate castles. In 1861 he visited Viollet-le-Duc's work at Pierrefonds, in France, which largely influenced the style of their construction. These projects provided many laborers employment and brought a considerable flow of money to the regions where his castles were built.
In 1868, Ludwig commissioned the first drawings for two of his buildings. The first was Schloss Neuschwanstein, or "New Swanstone Castle", a dramatic Romanesque fortress with soaring fairy-tale towers. The second was Herrenchiemsee, a replica of the central section of the palace at Versailles, France, Herrenchiemsee which was to be sited on the Herren Island in the middle of the Chiemsee Lake, was meant to outdo its predecessor in scale and opulence.
The following year, he finished the construction of the royal apartment in the Residenz Palace in Munich, which was followed three years later by the addition of an opulent conservatory or Winter Garden on the palace roof. It featured an ornamental lake with gardens and painted frescoes, and was roofed over using a technically advanced metal and glass construction.

An 1890s photochrom print of Schloss Neuschwanstein.


In 1869, Ludwig oversaw the laying of the cornerstone for Schloss Neuschwanstein on a breathtaking mountaintop site overlooking his childhood home, the castle his father had built at Hohenschwangau. The walls of Neuschwanstein are decorated with frescoes depicting scenes from many of Wagner's operas, including the somewhat less than mystic Meistersinger.
In 1872, he began construction for a special festival theater dedicated to the works of Richard Wagner, in the town of Bayreuth. A few years later, he watched early versions of Wagner’s Ring Cycle operas there, though he avoided the public performances. In 1878, construction was completed on Ludwig’s Schloss Linderhof, an ornate palace in neo-French Rococo style, with handsome formal gardens. The grounds contained a Venus grotto lit by electricity, where opera singers performed while Ludwig was rowed in a boat shaped like a shell. In the grounds a romantic woodsman's hut was also built around an artificial tree. The hut, referred to as Hundings Hut, is a reference to a similar structure in der Ring des Niebelungen. There is a sword embedded in the tree. In Walküre, Siegfried's father Siegmund, pulls the sword from the tree. Inside the palace, iconography reflected Ludwig's fascination with the absolutist government of Ancien Régime France. Ludwig saw himself as the "Moon King", a romantic shadow of the earlier "Sun King", Louis XIV of France. From Linderhof, Ludwig enjoyed moonlit sleigh rides in an elaborate eighteenth century sleigh, complete with footmen in eighteenth century livery. Also in 1878, construction began on his Versailles-derived Herrenchiemsee.
In 1879 he travelled to England and visited Sir Richard Wallace, to whom he had written for advice on England's medieval architecture[10]. Wallace advised Ludwig to take a tour of the English countryside in order to survey a variety of ecclesiastical buildings, that he might draw inspiration from them for future building projects. In a letter to Wallace, Ludwig expressed particular admiration for the buildings of Hertfordshire, which he toured extensively. Despite the foregoing statement, it should be noted that the detailed itinerary of Ludwig's journeys compiled from official sources by Franz Merta and published in "König Ludwig II. Wirklichkeit und Rätsel" (Schnell und Steiner, Regensburg, 3rd edition 2005) does not include this unlikely trip to England, but it is entirely possible that the king sent an emissary to consult Sir Richard Wallace at Hertford House in London, or at his country seat in Suffolk.
In the 1880s, Ludwig’s plans proceeded undimmed. He planned construction of a new castle on the Falkenstein near Pfronten in the Allgäu (based on the tower of St Mary's Church, Baldock), a Byzantine palace in the Graswangtal and a Chinese summer palace in Tyrol. By 1885, demolition for the beginning of the Falkenstein project was underway, and the road to the site had been graded.

[msnovtue]

Wow! I am so glad I found this! When I was 4, my parents made a cosmic error-they took me to Neuschwanstein. It was all downhill after that.

I've been to Germany many times now, and only once have I not made it back to Neuschwanstein. (In my defense, I spent the day at Linderhof instead.) I've been to every palace/castle/etc. associated with Ludwig except Roseninsel (bad timing) and the Koeningshaus am Schachen. (4 hour uphill hike). I just adore them all-so over the top, but so private.

I too have had the joy of taking the English language tours-yet another reason I'm working on my German. (I think the most appalling incident was the gal who decided the King's bedroom in Herrenchiemsee was the perfect place for a snack break.)

I am always fascinated to learn more about Ludwig. I don't know why.

I do remember a few years ago reading in the Sueddeutsche Zeitung that someone had supposedly come up with coat he was wearing when he died, and it had bullet holes in it. Supposedly it was going for testing, but I never heard any more about it.

And Greg, I'm going to have to go reread your book! (Again....)