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Thread: Natalee Holloway

  1. #101
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    I agree, and I am waiting for those who will blame Nat as well. She was a kid, and I'll bet she was date raped. Why else would she have gone. She did not appear to be stupid.

  2. #102
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    Young girls are so vulnerable....especially in today's coarse "Girls Gone Wild" culture.

  3. #103
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    We have allowed it to happen. We just let things go, and when they get this bad, we wonder what happened.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Watson View Post
    ABC NEWS TO AIR 90-MINUTE “SPECIAL EDITION OF
    20/20: THE FINAL HOURS OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY,”
    MONDAY, FEBRUARY 4
    Nearly three years after the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, new evidence has just surfaced prompting Aruban legal authorities to reopen the case. ABC News has obtained exclusive U.S. rights to stunning new information caught on tape that has the potential to blow the case wide open. Chris Cuomo and Elizabeth Vargas will report the very latest in these breaking developments on a special edition of “20/20,” MONDAY, FEBRUARY 4 (9:31-11:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.
    If there TRULY is stunning new evidence, then has it been presented to the proper authorities yet ?? If so, you think the world would have heard by now. If they sit on the info until the airdate, and it is viable evidence, then isn't that some sort of obstruction ??? This just doesn't sound right - more like a ratings ploy !!!!! For some reason, the fiasco with Geraldo opening Al Capones vault comes to mind !!!


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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazbabee View Post
    If there TRULY is stunning new evidence, then has it been presented to the proper authorities yet ?? If so, you think the world would have heard by now. If they sit on the info until the airdate, and it is viable evidence, then isn't that some sort of obstruction ??? This just doesn't sound right - more like a ratings ploy !!!!! For some reason, the fiasco with Geraldo opening Al Capones vault comes to mind !!!

    I agree. That is why I said not to get to excited. Of course these countries do not play by the same rules we do.

  6. #106
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    They guy did it for Christs sakes, everyone knows it. He IS a sociopath and clearly can give two shits about what is going on.

    It will all come out in the wash eventually.

  7. #107
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    Sociopath in every sense of the word. That smirk and self righteousness he has are his bragging rights. He (Van der Sloot) really believes he's going to get away with everything, and throws it in everyones faces. The tone of his voice is downright insulting to anyone who hears him. In his mind, he walks on water and is too goddamned special to ever be sent to prison for a crime. As for his victim Natalee? Obviously, he considers her just another tramp he can throw out like yesterday's garbage, whether dead or not. .

    Gggrrr this is a very tough read, this thread.

    I agree, it will all come out in the wash
    Goodbye Porpoise Spit!


  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamma View Post
    Sociopath in every sense of the word. That smirk and self righteousness he has are his bragging rights. He (Van der Sloot) really believes he's going to get away with everything, and throws it in everyones faces. The tone of his voice is downright insulting to anyone who hears him. In his mind, he walks on water and is too goddamned special to ever be sent to prison for a crime. As for his victim Natalee? Obviously, he considers her just another tramp he can throw out like yesterday's garbage, whether dead or not. .

    Gggrrr this is a very tough read, this thread.

    I agree, it will all come out in the wash
    It is a disturbing thing to read about. Esp when you have children.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen_Death_Hag View Post
    My only 2 questions are:

    1. How can you go out with "friends" in a foreign country and those "friends" let you leave with a group of strange guys and not try to stop you???

    2. How can these same "friends" not tell anyone she was missing until they got to the airport?? Does no one else find that a bit odd??
    Thank you QUEEN....that has been my question all along too! What kind of friend lets their drunk friend leave with 3 strange guys? Whenever me & my friends go out we leave together that's it, I don't care if I had to use force, my friend is not leaving with some guy she does not know. Especially if she's been drinking.

    Aruba is a beautiful island & the people are great. Can anyone name any other incident that has happened there? I have to laugh at all the bad things being said about Aruba because of this, expecially coming from Americans where shit like this goes on every minute! I'd walk anywhere at night in Aruba but you will not catch me walking downtown Detroit after the sun goes down.

    JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE
    Rest in peace sweet baby Caylee. The world loves you and will see to it that you get the justice you deserve.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    It is a disturbing thing to read about. Esp when you have children.

    Definitely. My daughters that will one day be Natalee's age. My hope is for them to be the all American honor roll student, athletic, popular, and college bound, just like Natalee was. Any parent would. It's sickening not only that kids are at tremendous risk, but that Van der Sloot is allowed to roam free no matter what. How many other Van der Sloots are there in the world, roaming free? I don't like thinking about it.

    Looking forward to more updates on this one, though. Especially the one when the bastard is behind bars for good, and his daddy can't smooth talk his son out of anything, ever again. The Van der Sloot's must be so proud .
    Goodbye Porpoise Spit!


  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamma View Post
    Definitely. My daughters that will one day be Natalee's age. My hope is for them to be the all American honor roll student, athletic, popular, and college bound, just like Natalee was. Any parent would. It's sickening not only that kids are at tremendous risk, but that Van der Sloot is allowed to roam free no matter what. How many other Van der Sloots are there in the world, roaming free? I don't like thinking about it.

    Looking forward to more updates on this one, though. Especially the one when the bastard is behind bars for good, and his daddy can't smooth talk his son out of anything, ever again. The Van der Sloot's must be so proud .
    Yes, Mamma. I have a daughter who will one day be Natalee's age also. My hope is the same that you have, that they would be the person that Natalee was. Her family has a right to know what happened to her.

    The Van der Sloot's. Yes indeed, what a family they must be and how proud they must be to sit at the table with a piece of shit like that.

    I will look forward along with you to the day it all comes out. And it will.

  12. #112
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    This case was so botched from the very beginning, I never get my hopes up anymore. I just listen/watch the latest and think hmmmph.

    I think Urine has some really big karma he's going to be working out on this and I do believe it will come out at some point.

    Natalee, I'm afraid, has been shark bait since the night she went missing.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Watson View Post
    This case was so botched from the very beginning, I never get my hopes up anymore. I just listen/watch the latest and think hmmmph.

    I think Urine has some really big karma he's going to be working out on this and I do believe it will come out at some point.

    Natalee, I'm afraid, has been shark bait since the night she went missing.
    Botched is an understatement. Considering such a clean get away these boys had with local authorities, makes you wonder how often they've done this before?

    Oh, and of course, blaming the two lower class citizen black guys for the crime, before anyone knew there was a crime. Classic. Van der Sloot is filthy trash, most likely always has been and always will be. Just like his daddy.

    Natalee's body is far gone I'm afraid as well. But I hold out hope of hearing Van der Sonofabitch (and I do mean BITCH) get caught on tape bragging about his crime. Then it's bye-bye Joran! Cant wait for this guy to be somebidy's bitch in prison.

    PS: Mrs. Watson ~ Urine... outstanding!
    Goodbye Porpoise Spit!


  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajurk View Post
    speaking of sylvia browne, has anyone seen stopsylviabrowne.com ? i used to like her until i read that website...jeeeez.
    I haven't looked at the site but it's most likely a jealous person's attempt to discredit a famous person. I would take what it says with a grain of salt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noelle Page View Post
    Wow. Whatever it is, hope they can make it stick. Wouldnt it be nice if it led to her being tracked down? Unlikely though. But maybe her parents can have some relief one way or the other.
    Too bad they closed the case. When Natalee first went missing, I could understand all of the hype. It's the perfect news story for our fear-mongering media: Young girl goes away to foreign country on trip never to return. But, after weeks of nothing new and always hearing that there was "shocking new evidence" and there was nothing to report. It all became too much the night Katrina hit the US and Rita Cosby still had to throw Natalee into her show. That for me made me change the channel anytime anything about her came on. I think those three assholes know what happened but they aren't saying. It just seems a little....I don't know, it just doesn't sit well that there was this "shocking new evidence" two years later and it was portrayed to be evidence to put these putzes away but nothing came of it. Their "foolproof" evidence obviously turned out to be nothing.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lita View Post
    It all became too much the night Katrina hit the US and Rita Cosby still had to throw Natalee into her show.
    Thanks for reminding me of that. We were out of power for almost three weeks. We had a back up generator that helped some, but no cable so we had to use a small portable television with an antennea to receive a channel. But didn't they release these guys while all the Katrina stuff was going on? Once we picked up the pieces from the storm out this way, I am recalling the news saying they were "released when America was foucused on Katrina, and their backs were turned." Something like that.
    Goodbye Porpoise Spit!


  16. #116
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    Rita Crosby makes me gag. Such a sleazoid, right up there with Aprhodite Jones, who's ass can I kiss (or worse) to get a story?

    Urine is another sleaze, with his crooked Judge father who no doubt helped him and his in denial enabling mother. Allegedly, Urine and the Kalpoe guys all had reputations for kissing up on tourists. Also, Urine was still in high school and he was hanging out at these places regularly, often with his dad.

    Nice.

  17. #117
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    Some of the tape has leaked out tonight. This was what they said. Urine had sex with her on the beach. She had either a heart attack, or a seizure, and stopped breathing. He flouted her out in the ocean as far as he could and left her there. There was also something about her going out further. I don't know if they mean the currents or if someone else was involved.

    This info was on Fox news with Geraldo, tonight.

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    People really seem to hate Nancy Grace. Why? (I'm neutral myself)

  19. #119
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    Here's a link to an article on ABC's website that gives some details of Urine's alleged confession.

    http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4222253&page=1

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Watson View Post
    Here's a link to an article on ABC's website that gives some details of Urine's alleged confession.

    http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4222253&page=1
    Boy that kid is beyond a shitbag.

    He is evil personified.

  21. #121
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    Boy that kid is beyond a shitbag.

    Amen!

    If he was making this confession up, as he later claims, it certainly seems plausible and detailed.

  22. #122
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    Really good article. I wonder who the friend is? Daddy? And the other boys, Depoc (?) and whathisuglyface. If they were all three together, sounds to me like monkey boy Urine would like to take all the credit for himself for Natalee's murder. SociopathSociopathSociopathSociopath.
    Goodbye Porpoise Spit!


  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    Boy that kid is beyond a shitbag.

    He is evil personified.
    Far beyond if you ask me.
    Here is a quote from the article:

    "Will they ever find her, do you think?" van der Eem asked, in one conversation.

    "No," van der Sloot said.

    "The only thing I still want is a big fat compensation check" for treatment by authorities in Aruba, van der Sloot added. "But before I have it, it'll be 10 years."

    "But where … is she, Joran?" van der Eem asked.

    "She'll never be found," van der Sloot said.

  24. #124
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    I am waiting for them to finally say that Daddy had a lot to do with the cover up.

  25. #125
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    Right when it was first determined that Joran and crew were the last to see Natalee it came out that one of Joran's friends had a boat. Guy who was a DJ at one of the clubs somewhere, I think. Or a party boat that did tourist excursions?

    Daddy was totally involved, too.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Watson View Post
    Right when it was first determined that Joran and crew were the last to see Natalee it came out that one of Joran's friends had a boat. Guy who was a DJ at one of the clubs somewhere, I think. Or a party boat that did tourist excursions?

    Daddy was totally involved, too.
    Daddy needs to be held just as accountable as Urine


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  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulubaines View Post
    All three of those boys know what happened, I think. I don't think they set out to kill her, but SOMETHING went wrong, and she ended up very dead. Poor Girl.
    Oh I think they meant to kill her after the 3 of them raped her and probably roughed her up. These guys have power and privilage over there and have money so I am sure daddy and Mom covered for the little bastards. I think she was taken out by a reef a fed to the sharks.

  28. #128
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    I totally believe that he/they took her out into the ocean. And I wish something of hers would wash up--be it body part, clothing, anything. I still think it will. It (always) feels like O.J. will get off his charges du' jour. Robert Blake, I knew he would get off, same w/ O.J.--not guilty but civilly responsible (Not Guilty = Pure. Bull. Shit.) Any hoo, as for "guilt" or remaining free on this one I feel like Urine will get rumbled. Somehow, I just feel it. I sure hope so.
    Last edited by cachluv; 02-03-2008 at 10:17 PM.
    .
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    "So, what, no fuckin' ziti now?"

  29. #129
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    You know I don't care if she was where she wasn't supposed to be,doing what she wasn't supposed to be doing. COld case or not this should be followed thru. These guys are guilty of murder..if they gave her a drug that killed her while they raped her..that is murder. I don't for one minute blame her mother for grabbing all the publicity she can get.. white or young..makes no difference..rich or poor,,makes no difference. This girl was 18..had her life ahead of her and these guys took it.
    Until you have lost a child you cannot know the pain. And hers is worse yet because she cannot say good bye to her child and not even bury her. I will never ever go back to Aruba and tell every one I know that wants to go there to find another place to spend your money. Some where you are safe because it is ot safe there and they don't give a damn about the tourists that wind up dead or hurt or missing.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by cachluv View Post
    I totally believe that he/they took her out into the ocean. And I wish something of hers would wash up--be it body part, clothing, anything. I still think it will. It (always) feels like O.J. will get off his charges du' jour. Robert Blake, I knew he would get off, same w/ O.J.--not guilty but criminally responsible (Not Guilty = Pure. Bull. Shit.) Any hoo, as for "guilt" or remaining free on this one I feel like Urine will get rumbled. Somehow, I just feel it. I sure hope so.
    Cachluv, I have to agree with you. My gut tells me Urine is going to be in jail soon, again, and this time for good. Poor little monkey feller is going to be giving interviews behind those bars is what I see. I doubt much would wash up on shore , it's that tape of him confessing that will do him in.

    Daddy dearest completely involved, and that butt-ugly bitch he has for a mom is totally immersed in the family name never being scathed. I wonder how she introduces her family ..."Here's my sociopath monkey-boy murdering son, Urine. Oh! I mean Joran (uncomfortable smile)."

    Oh yeah, bet ya that goes over well at parties .
    Goodbye Porpoise Spit!


  31. #131
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    Something tells me that for him to say so definitively she will never be found that it wasn't the typical hump-n-dump. He must have some real knowledge of why she wouldn't ever be found, like she was in pieces going into the water, or she's buried like 50 feet below ground. Something. I know if I ever dumped a body, whole and intact, into the ocean I would sweat for the rest of my life thinking about it drifting in the water. His arrogance isn't simply due to his psychological positioning and profile as a sociopath. It seems too, I dunno, solid for that. He seems very confident that she will never be found and/or that what really happened will not be found out. Dr. Baden says hidden dead bodies have a way of being found. I hope something breaks, something tangible that they can use to cook his ass. He's pretty enough to make a really good inmate in prison. "Hey Joran, remember to pack your soap-on-a-rope!"
    .
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    "So, what, no fuckin' ziti now?"

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamma View Post
    Sociopath in every sense of the word. That smirk and self righteousness he has are his bragging rights. He (Van der Sloot) really believes he's going to get away with everything, and throws it in everyones faces. The tone of his voice is downright insulting to anyone who hears him. In his mind, he walks on water and is too goddamned special to ever be sent to prison for a crime. As for his victim Natalee? Obviously, he considers her just another tramp he can throw out like yesterday's garbage, whether dead or not. .

    Gggrrr this is a very tough read, this thread.

    I agree, it will all come out in the wash
    Like that piece of shit ROBERT CHAMBERS (sic) who killed JENNIFER LEVIN 20 years ago in Central Park, VAN DER SLOOT has that same arrogant smug face. I'd like to see him end up in a jail cell with a half dozen big horny gritty guys that'll be , uh, let's say...a little short on foreplay !
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  33. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by NOVSTORM View Post
    You know I don't care if she was where she wasn't supposed to be,doing what she wasn't supposed to be doing. COld case or not this should be followed thru. These guys are guilty of murder..if they gave her a drug that killed her while they raped her..that is murder. I don't for one minute blame her mother for grabbing all the publicity she can get.. white or young..makes no difference..rich or poor,,makes no difference. This girl was 18..had her life ahead of her and these guys took it.
    Until you have lost a child you cannot know the pain. And hers is worse yet because she cannot say good bye to her child and not even bury her. I will never ever go back to Aruba and tell every one I know that wants to go there to find another place to spend your money. Some where you are safe because it is ot safe there and they don't give a damn about the tourists that wind up dead or hurt or missing.
    I'm confused how everyone here seems to think that this piece of 'evidence' is sure to condemn Joran and yet, at the same time, no one here actually seems to believe a word he says in the supposed 'confession.'

    If the court decides he was lying, then the 'confession' is worthless and they still have nothing on him. If they decide the 'confession' is real then they might be able to charge him with improperly disposing of a body. Throw an Obstruction charge into it and he still isn't likely to do any real time.

    I'm certainly not saying that the girl deserved to die or anything. It is truly unfortunate that she made decisions that may have ultimately led to her death. What baffles me is how you can so handily assume that they 'forced' her to take drugs and then raped her. Like no 18 year old girl has ever voluntarily taken a hit of X and had casual sex with a stranger before? I'm sorry to break your bubble, but it happens all the time. I'm guessing that anyone who is incredulous about this hasn't spent a Spring Break down at Padre or Cabo or even Aruba in the last ten years. Or watched a Youtube video. Teenagers do stupid, careless things. Most of the time they walk away from the mistake, humbled if not wiser. Sometimes they don't. Why is it so hard to believe that she may have done something stupid and died as a result?

    Personally, I think the confession is legit. I think things happened pretty much exactly how he described in the recording. Bear in mind that Joran was even younger than her at the time. Every bit as much a 'kid' as she was, moreso insofar as he wasn't even legally considered an adult by US standards. She had some negative reaction to something that she ingested (probably voluntarily) and, like a stupid kid, he panicked. Did he make a bad decision? Absolutely. Would calling an ambulance have made a difference? No way to tell. No one will ever know for sure. I seriously doubt even he had any idea. He was probably just as drunk or high as she was.

    Is he a schmuck for lying about it all this time and not owning up to his panicked irresponsibility? Yes. If he'd owned up to it the day after, no one here would even know of or care about Natalee Holloway today. Her family could have had the closure it sought and she'd have been just another drug-related death statistic.

    I think they -should- charge him with Obstruction. And anything related. He wasted ridiculous amounts of public resources by not having the stones to own his mistakes like a man. I think her family has good claim on a wrongful death suit, on the chance that she may have lived if he'd acted more responsibly. They should be compensated and he should repay society for the time and resources that were wasted as a result of his cowardice.

    But I really think calling him a 'murdering sociopath' is going overboard. He was a stupid, scared kid and he's obviously grown into a stupid, scared young adult. Not being publicly remorseful about his role in what was, essentially, an accidental death doesn't make him a clinical sociopath. For all you know, he still has nightmares about it and cries himself to sleep. Please bear in mind that any knowledge ANYONE in this forum has about him is all filtered through the media lens. But even if he's moved past it and ISN'T bothered anymore, that still doesn't make him a sociopath.

    As for murder? I think its unlikely. Not only is it unlikely, but it is going to be absolutely impossible to prove. There is no body, there will likely never be a body, and the closest thing they have to a confession is only a confession of panicked, irresponsible negligence. Not murder. Yes, of course it is POSSIBLE that he pumped her full of MDMX, raped her repeatedly, and then killed her and disposed of the body. But his 'confessed' version of events is FAR more probable. Statistically, there are simply far more scared, irresponsible teenagers out there than there are ice-hearted, cold-blooded killers.
    Don't forgive and never forget; Do unto others before they do unto you; and third and most importantly, keep your eye on your friends, because your enemies will take care of themselves. -J.R. Ewing

  34. #134
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    van der Sloot's comment in the article, "Why does this s*** have to happen to me?"---which he mentions thinking while watching Holloway convulsing on the beach---that really says it all.

    It's all about him. What a creepy asshole...



  35. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack-O-Lantern View Post
    van der Sloot's comment in the article, "Why does this s*** have to happen to me?"---which he mentions thinking while watching Holloway convulsing on the beach---that really says it all.

    It's all about him. What a creepy asshole...
    I dunno. Sounds like a lot of selfish teenagers I've dealt with in my life. Its usually 'all about them.' at that age. If it happened the way he said, its more or less like a drunken hit-and-run car accident, though even less proactive. Teenagers pull that crap ALL the time. You can read about it in some local paper somewhere every single day. Just a few weeks ago a 19 year old here ran over a homeless guy in an alley while on his way home from a party. They didn't catch him until some time later, when his parents found the dent in his car and put the pieces together.

    I'm not saying its right. It certainly isn't right. Stupid kids need to stand up and take responsibility for their foolish actions. But being a stupid, selfish teenager is a far cry from being a creepy sociopath. If every 17 year old kid had the spine and responsibility to stand up and own their mistakes, instead of trying to deny them or shift the blame, that entire age bracket wouldn't have the well-deserved reputation that it has.
    Don't forgive and never forget; Do unto others before they do unto you; and third and most importantly, keep your eye on your friends, because your enemies will take care of themselves. -J.R. Ewing

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by banedon View Post
    I dunno. Sounds like a lot of selfish teenagers I've dealt with in my life. Its usually 'all about them.' at that age. If it happened the way he said, its more or less like a drunken hit-and-run car accident, though even less proactive. Teenagers pull that crap ALL the time. You can read about it in some local paper somewhere every single day. Just a few weeks ago a 19 year old here ran over a homeless guy in an alley while on his way home from a party. They didn't catch him until some time later, when his parents found the dent in his car and put the pieces together.

    I'm not saying its right. It certainly isn't right. Stupid kids need to stand up and take responsibility for their foolish actions. But being a stupid, selfish teenager is a far cry from being a creepy sociopath. If every 17 year old kid had the spine and responsibility to stand up and own their mistakes, instead of trying to deny them or shift the blame, that entire age bracket wouldn't have the well-deserved reputation that it has.
    I totally agree with you, but I didn't call him a sociopath...merely a creepy asshole!!
    And any other teenagers who act selfishly, without regard to human life and dignity, are assholes too...I didn't act that way as a teenager--neither did my friends--and I don't feel that being at their "tender age" excuses anything whatsoever.

    I can't imagine standing on a beach (at ANY age), watching a young girl literally expire before my eyes, and thinking "Why does this shit have to happen to me"? Sorry, that's "above and beyond" the norm for bizarre teenage behavior...that's downright sick....and IF it this IS true, this guy needs be put away. I most CERTAINLY wouldn't want him around MY niece...EVER.



  37. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack-O-Lantern View Post
    I totally agree with you, but I didn't call him a sociopath...merely a creepy asshole!!
    And any other teenagers who act selfishly, without regard to human life and dignity, are assholes too...I didn't act that way as a teenager--neither did my friends--and I don't feel that being at their "tender age" excuses anything whatsoever.

    I can't imagine standing on a beach (at ANY age), watching a young girl literally expire before my eyes, and thinking "Why does this shit have to happen to me"? Sorry, that's "above and beyond" the norm for bizarre teenage behavior...that's downright sick....and IF it this IS true, this guy needs be put away. I most CERTAINLY wouldn't want him around MY niece...EVER.
    You're correct, you didn't refer to him as a sociopath. My reference to the word was more directed at the majority of the thread, but since I quoted you in my post, it certainly looked like I was directing it at you. I apologize for not being more clear.

    I jumped on it mainly because I think the term 'sociopath' is thrown around far too loosely. Joran may be an asshole. He has publicly exhibited some signs of anti-social behavior. He's obviously a pampered, selfish, irresponsible little prick. But these things do not necessarily add up to making him a sociopath. If he'd been diagnosed as such, I am certain it would have garnered plenty of media attention.

    The remark you referenced a few times does indeed go a bit beyond the 'normal' bounds of teenage selfishness, yes. But I don't believe we currently have access to the full context surrounding it. Furthermore, it is obvious that the stance Joran has chosen to adapt in response to this entire issue is one of brazen indifference. He's chosen to project that image to the media. Just because he has done so, however, does not necessarily mean that that image is wholly reflective of his true self. Being paraded in front of the ENTIRE international community as a possible rapist and killer is likely to have a very strong effect on someone. Especially a 17 year old kid. I've never been in his situation and I think I am probably intelligent and mature enough that I should never have to be...but if I were, I don't know that my first choice would be throwing myself on my knees, weeping and begging the forgiveness in front of BILLIONS of television viewers all over the world, especially ones that felt the need to build themselves up by making fun of my name or repeatedly saying how ugly I was.

    Very few people in this world want the media to see them for who they really are. Whether it be Britney Spears or Joran van der Sloot, people are likely to project an image in order to feel less vulnerable and exposed in front of the eyes of the world. Yes, I think Joran probably is an asshole. But I also think that he plays the 'asshole rich kid' bit to the hilt when he's being grilled by the media.
    Last edited by banedon; 02-04-2008 at 06:36 AM.
    Don't forgive and never forget; Do unto others before they do unto you; and third and most importantly, keep your eye on your friends, because your enemies will take care of themselves. -J.R. Ewing

  38. #138
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    There is a special 20/20 showing tonight at 9:30 ET showing the video and the story. I saw a portion of the video this morning on Good Morning America...shark bait indeed...how sad...

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    Quote Originally Posted by banedon View Post
    I dunno. Sounds like a lot of selfish teenagers I've dealt with in my life. Its usually 'all about them.' at that age. If it happened the way he said, its more or less like a drunken hit-and-run car accident, though even less proactive. Teenagers pull that crap ALL the time. You can read about it in some local paper somewhere every single day. Just a few weeks ago a 19 year old here ran over a homeless guy in an alley while on his way home from a party. They didn't catch him until some time later, when his parents found the dent in his car and put the pieces together.

    I'm not saying its right. It certainly isn't right. Stupid kids need to stand up and take responsibility for their foolish actions. But being a stupid, selfish teenager is a far cry from being a creepy sociopath. If every 17 year old kid had the spine and responsibility to stand up and own their mistakes, instead of trying to deny them or shift the blame, that entire age bracket wouldn't have the well-deserved reputation that it has.
    Running over someone while you are (probably) drunk and on your way home from a party and scared the cops will get you and assaulting a stranger on a beach and throwing her in the ocean even if she might have still been alive to me are two seperate things. And a 19 year old is an adult, not a teenager. Apples and oranges.

    This guy clearly is above and beyond normal "teenage" issues of doing stupid shit. What he has done is beyond comprehension and can not be compared to normal stupid shit teenagers do. I think most police would consider throwing someone into the ocean NOT akin to a drunken hit and run.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by banedon View Post
    I'm confused how everyone here seems to think that this piece of 'evidence' is sure to condemn Joran and yet, at the same time, no one here actually seems to believe a word he says in the supposed 'confession.'

    If the court decides he was lying, then the 'confession' is worthless and they still have nothing on him. If they decide the 'confession' is real then they might be able to charge him with improperly disposing of a body. Throw an Obstruction charge into it and he still isn't likely to do any real time.

    I'm certainly not saying that the girl deserved to die or anything. It is truly unfortunate that she made decisions that may have ultimately led to her death. What baffles me is how you can so handily assume that they 'forced' her to take drugs and then raped her. Like no 18 year old girl has ever voluntarily taken a hit of X and had casual sex with a stranger before? I'm sorry to break your bubble, but it happens all the time. I'm guessing that anyone who is incredulous about this hasn't spent a Spring Break down at Padre or Cabo or even Aruba in the last ten years. Or watched a Youtube video. Teenagers do stupid, careless things. Most of the time they walk away from the mistake, humbled if not wiser. Sometimes they don't. Why is it so hard to believe that she may have done something stupid and died as a result?

    Personally, I think the confession is legit. I think things happened pretty much exactly how he described in the recording. Bear in mind that Joran was even younger than her at the time. Every bit as much a 'kid' as she was, moreso insofar as he wasn't even legally considered an adult by US standards. She had some negative reaction to something that she ingested (probably voluntarily) and, like a stupid kid, he panicked. Did he make a bad decision? Absolutely. Would calling an ambulance have made a difference? No way to tell. No one will ever know for sure. I seriously doubt even he had any idea. He was probably just as drunk or high as she was.

    Is he a schmuck for lying about it all this time and not owning up to his panicked irresponsibility? Yes. If he'd owned up to it the day after, no one here would even know of or care about Natalee Holloway today. Her family could have had the closure it sought and she'd have been just another drug-related death statistic.

    I think they -should- charge him with Obstruction. And anything related. He wasted ridiculous amounts of public resources by not having the stones to own his mistakes like a man. I think her family has good claim on a wrongful death suit, on the chance that she may have lived if he'd acted more responsibly. They should be compensated and he should repay society for the time and resources that were wasted as a result of his cowardice.

    But I really think calling him a 'murdering sociopath' is going overboard. He was a stupid, scared kid and he's obviously grown into a stupid, scared young adult. Not being publicly remorseful about his role in what was, essentially, an accidental death doesn't make him a clinical sociopath. For all you know, he still has nightmares about it and cries himself to sleep. Please bear in mind that any knowledge ANYONE in this forum has about him is all filtered through the media lens. But even if he's moved past it and ISN'T bothered anymore, that still doesn't make him a sociopath.

    As for murder? I think its unlikely. Not only is it unlikely, but it is going to be absolutely impossible to prove. There is no body, there will likely never be a body, and the closest thing they have to a confession is only a confession of panicked, irresponsible negligence. Not murder. Yes, of course it is POSSIBLE that he pumped her full of MDMX, raped her repeatedly, and then killed her and disposed of the body. But his 'confessed' version of events is FAR more probable. Statistically, there are simply far more scared, irresponsible teenagers out there than there are ice-hearted, cold-blooded killers.
    He is far fom a scared, irresponsible kid. The sex issue to me is not the issue, it is the fact that he threw a body of someones fucking daughter into an ocean. If she was alive or dead, that is fucking abnormal behavior. Not the behavior of "scared, irresponsible teenager."
    Last edited by lisalouver; 02-04-2008 at 07:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack-O-Lantern View Post
    van der Sloot's comment in the article, "Why does this s*** have to happen to me?"---which he mentions thinking while watching Holloway convulsing on the beach---that really says it all.

    It's all about him. What a creepy asshole...
    I agree..wonder what Natalee was thinking..little sociopathic piece of s***
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    I agree..wonder what Natalee was thinking..little sociopathic piece of s***
    Just so, so sad for Natalee and her family.

  43. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    Running over someone while you are (probably) drunk and on your way home from a party and scared the cops will get you and assaulting a stranger on a beach and throwing her in the ocean even if she might have still been alive to me are two seperate things. And a 19 year old is an adult, not a teenager. Apples and oranges.

    This guy clearly is above and beyond normal "teenage" issues of doing stupid shit. What he has done is beyond comprehension and can not be compared to normal stupid shit teenagers do. I think most police would consider throwing someone into the ocean NOT akin to a drunken hit and run.
    Be that as it may, so long as they believe that she was dead when she went in (and its going to be almost impossible to prove otherwise), improperly disposing of a body is still going to carry a lesser charge than vehicular manslaughter and a DUI.

    There is no proof that he assaulted her. There never WILL be proof that he assaulted her. In fact, when he 'confessed', completely unaware that his confession was being recorded, he was pretty clear that there was no assault. Assuming that the confession wasn't just made up, as he now claims (and I do think that THAT claim is horseshit), then why would he possibly lie while confessing, especially if he didn't realize his confession was being recorded? He was making a statement that he assumed would never come back to him, so what possible reason would he have to not be on the level? If he said in his confession that it was consensual, then it most likely was.

    I really fail to see how him dumping a (presumably) dead body because he was afraid the incident would get him in trouble is any different than a teenager fleeing the scene of a car accident where someone else was injured/dying. Legally, there is obviously a difference. There certainly isn't a moral one. And yet, again, scared, drunk teenagers flee accident scenes all the time. What he did was wrong. And stupid. And selfish. But it doesn't make him a sociopath and it certainly doesn't make him a murderer.

    IF she was still alive when she went in (which will NEVER be proved outside of him admitting it), then yes, that would be a different story legally. But morally, he tried to revive her and failed. He thought she was dead. Sure, he can say three years later that, in retrospect, he couldn't be -certain- she was dead, but it is pretty obvious that at the time he thought she was.

    He's obviously guilty of several things here and I do believe that he should be made to pay the price for them. I do not, however, believe he was guilty of rape or assault. And I do not believe that he is guilty of willful homicide.
    His confession makes this reasonably clear and, quite frankly, thats probably the best they're going to get. Assuming they can even get him to own up to THAT, which he now seems unwilling to do.
    Last edited by banedon; 02-04-2008 at 07:16 AM.
    Don't forgive and never forget; Do unto others before they do unto you; and third and most importantly, keep your eye on your friends, because your enemies will take care of themselves. -J.R. Ewing

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOVSTORM View Post
    You know I don't care if she was where she wasn't supposed to be,doing what she wasn't supposed to be doing. COld case or not this should be followed thru. These guys are guilty of murder..if they gave her a drug that killed her while they raped her..that is murder. I don't for one minute blame her mother for grabbing all the publicity she can get.. white or young..makes no difference..rich or poor,,makes no difference. This girl was 18..had her life ahead of her and these guys took it.
    Until you have lost a child you cannot know the pain. And hers is worse yet because she cannot say good bye to her child and not even bury her. I will never ever go back to Aruba and tell every one I know that wants to go there to find another place to spend your money. Some where you are safe because it is ot safe there and they don't give a damn about the tourists that wind up dead or hurt or missing.
    Where is there a safe place? The police are having a hard time with this murder investigation because they never have to investigate murder because it doesn't happen in Aruba.

    JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE
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    This is gonna sound so stupid I know, but I kinda thought that she may have been sold as a sex slave to another country.
    I say this because of the lack of evidence of murder at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikealmonds View Post
    This is gonna sound so stupid I know, but I kinda thought that she may have been sold as a sex slave to another country.
    I say this because of the lack of evidence of murder at the time.
    Not stupid, that stuff happens too. JOPLIN feels that same way.

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    Rest in peace sweet baby Caylee. The world loves you and will see to it that you get the justice you deserve.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikealmonds View Post
    This is gonna sound so stupid I know, but I kinda thought that she may have been sold as a sex slave to another country.
    I say this because of the lack of evidence of murder at the time.
    Its not stupid, it very well could have happened, we never will really know.

  48. #148
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    Yeah .. there is no way this is ever going to get solved. Someone knows the truth and just isn't telling .. why would you incriminate yourself, especially when you "don't trust the person"?? If I didn't trust someone, I surely wouldn't say I was guilty just to see if he goes and blabs it to others out of confidence!! I am just sad for the families of Natalee who just need closure and will probably never get it!

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    A judge has ruled that Urine won't be re-arrested. The sad thing is that the same thing would happen here in this case if Urine confessed but didn't know his confession was being recorded. I also think Urine is benefitting from that Carr guy who confessed to killing Jon Benet. I think some people are wondering if Urine's confession was just a kid trying to sound cool. How disposing of a body is cool, I don't know. Or how giving some girl so much date rape drug that she seizes and dies is cool, I don't know but I think that's what happened.

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    Does anybody know anything about “Roofies” or any of the other “Date Rape” Drugs?
    Could she have been given something which caused her to go into convulsions and
    then died or gone into a coma? In combination with her alcohol consumption perhaps?
    If she took something, willingly or not, may go a long way to explain what happened
    that night.

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