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Thread: Vivien Leigh

  1. #51
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    Its a good think vivien got her own way eh! Trust me ...stick with the book...its worth it!

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiegirl View Post
    I remember when the 50th Anniversary Edition came out on VHS quite a few years back. My son saved up his money to buy that for me for Mother's Day. He was only 16 years old and the thing cost eighty bucks. That touched me beyond words. He even went and saw it with me at a local theater here when it was released after it had been restored. He had zero interest in that movie but sat through it because he knew I wanted to see it. What a great kid!
    I love that story about your son. He sounds priceless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leevancleef View Post

    Wow, these pics are awesome!
    Defunct the strings, Of cemetery things
    With one flat foot.....On the devil's wing

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    Waterloo Bridge is such a beautiful film, Its my favorite Film of her's! It was Robert Taylors film and he is her beautiful co star! Its B&W but there is a colourised version which Id tune down to B&W haha! The film is hauntingly beautiful and Viviennes acting is very good!

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    Shes great in Waterloo Bridge too.
    She was such a gorgeous lady, those killer cheekbones!
    Theres and anecdote that i love and cracks me up because id never expect those words coming out of Vivien's mouth:When she was working in GWTW, she was quite mad that she couldnt see Olivier for weeks, it was the beggining of their romance and they were crazy for each other. One day , Selznick decided to let her go visit Laurece for a few days who i believe was in the UK during those days. When she came back to the studio , Selznick asked her how did the visit go and Vivien's answer was, literally:
    "[SIZE=2]Oh David, I'm so grateful to you." "Larry met me in the hotel lobby, and we went upstairs, and we fucked, and we fucked, and we fucked the whole weekend."

    [/SIZE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie View Post
    I loved GWTW and Vivian. I could watch it a thousand times, and not get tired.

    Trivia: There was never a Tara in Atlanta, or out side Atlanta. For a time, a Governor's wife told people her house was Tara, but it was built much later.
    I live on Hilton Head Island which is an "upscale community" I guess, a couple here have built an exact replica of Tara. Even went so far as get "plans" from the MGM. It cost $25 million, overlooks the ocean, and is a sight to see. They have even called it "Tara".

    Some people just have too much money.
    "You are my center when I spin away..." TY

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    Quote Originally Posted by sassie View Post
    Leigh played a prostitute in "Sidewalks of London" ("St. Martin's Lane" in the UK), with Charles Laughton. Her profession was merely hinted at in the film, however.

    She was indeed bipolar, and first exhibited symptoms of the condition shortly after her marriage to Olivier in 1940. Over the years, she underwent constant treatment for the condition, including electroshock therapy-which was the accepted treatment back then-many, many times. She first battled tuberculosis successfully in the 1940's, and died from a reoccurence in 1967.

    "Streetcar", "The Skin Of Our Teeth" (theatrical play) and "Elephant Walk" (a role she lost to Elizabeth Taylor after she had a breakdown on location) were all roles that seemed to contribute to her manic depression. Olivier was of the opinion that certain roles sparked the manic phase of the disorder, and there is some evidence that he was right.

    She was, above all, a gutsy lady. She knew what was wrong with her, and she did all she could to treat the disorder with the medical science available at the time. But, it was never easy, and it cost her a great deal, in her personal and professional lives.

    Nobody else will ever play Scarlett as well as Leigh did.


    Viv did have bi-polar disorder, and it only got worse because she used method acting, in combination with Ralph Greenson's "psychiatry". Method is the technique used in acting that uses your own real feelings. The actors were taught to dredge up bad feeling and memories to make their performance all the more real. That method screwed up alot of mentally fragile people, including Marilyn Monroe. Also, remember that Greenson was also Marilyn's psychiatrist. Obviously, he didn't know what the hell he was doing. He, in essence, killed Marilyn, and he made Vivian go crazy.
    [SIZE=3]Erin[/SIZE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by erin View Post
    Viv did have bi-polar disorder, and it only got worse because she used method acting, in combination with Ralph Greenson's "psychiatry". Method is the technique used in acting that uses your own real feelings. The actors were taught to dredge up bad feeling and memories to make their performance all the more real. That method screwed up alot of mentally fragile people, including Marilyn Monroe. Also, remember that Greenson was also Marilyn's psychiatrist. Obviously, he didn't know what the hell he was doing. He, in essence, killed Marilyn, and he made Vivian go crazy.
    I had no idea that he had been involved in Vivians life as well.

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    Erin you are brilliant ......You need to write a book.I have always blamed Greeson...always.

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    Vivien Leigh a Method actress? I've never heard that before-where did you get that info? I know I've read that Olivier was very anti-Method, and I would have assumed the same went for Vivien.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yksguy View Post
    Vivien Leigh a Method actress? I've never heard that before-where did you get that info? I know I've read that Olivier was very anti-Method, and I would have assumed the same went for Vivien.
    And where did you get the info that she was Greenson's patient?

    Even if she was his patient, he did not make her crazy. She was never crazy, she was bipolar. There's a difference. And, in the last years of her life, after the divorce from Olivier, she functioned quite well. Jack Merivale attested to that in several books.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qulevergrrl View Post
    "This is one night you won't turn me out, Scarlette." cut to the next day..."...and she trembled with fright at his frown."

    All the way up the stairs, she his hitting and fighting him (Rhett). Maybe we all think the little snot deserved it, but she was fighting him nonetheless. No means no, remember. Anyway, I remember the poster in the rape crisis center at school with that scene photo on it with the caption below it. I can't get it out of my mind ever since. She was fighting him and he was saying, "you aren't going to 'turn me out' tonight". Date rape. She was all giggles the next day because he had "taken" her. He had "overcome" her. He had "enraptured" her. Or "rapture". Or "rape". The origin of the word rape is rapture which means to be overcome or overwhelmed or overtaken. I think that scene pretty much hits the nail on the head. That poster is online as one of the first and most popular date rape posters. I can't take credit for it.

    As aweful as this sounds...if I truly believe in the symbolism of that scene I should despise it, right? Wrong. I love that film. That is what men did back then. Just like women like Scarlette would slap their servants/slaves, which is sickening to me. But we can't ignore history. I don't revere it, but I do enjoy great period representations, and damned if that isn't one.

    As for Butterfly McQueen, what a hero. She told the director that she would only scream if Vivien would NOT slap her. If Vivien truly hit her, she wouldn't let out a peep. IF Vivien pretended to hit her, she would scream her head off. That's what I meant by "bucking the tiger".

    Thanks for all the questions!
    I didn't take the book or the movie that way. I took it as he gave her a little action instead of words like Ashley!!! I just honestly would never have dreamed that situation out of that scene-- or consider it rape. OMG I can't believe a rape poster was created out of that scene!

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bidmor View Post
    Over in the Gable thread, poppie posted:
    "He and Joan Crawford had an on going affair that lasted many years, even thru their marriages. Someone asked her what made Gable so special, after all a man is a man. Crawford replied yes, that is true and that all men are alike. Except, for testicles. All men had them, but when Gable walked, his clacked together."

    So who knows...Carole may have made her remark in an attempt to discourage as many other women as possible. Then again Crawford may have been defending Gable's equipment reputation...either remark could easily be total b.s.
    I take that to mean that he was "all that is man"...a man's man, if you will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leevancleef View Post
    This is Suzanne , Vivien's daughter, on the day of her wedding


    Phew. She is much better looking as an adult...that picture of her as a kid is god awful.

  16. #66
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    So amazing that scene would be considered a rape scene. I never thought of it being a rape scene and I used to help at the rape crisis center. I still do not consider that to be true. She may have been pounding and fighting all the way up the stairs but that was her nature in the film. She always played hard to get with him. I can't buy that. Sorry

  17. #67
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    Rape never even entered my mind about that scene until I came across this thread. And I think it is utterly ludicrous to think of it that way.
    Defunct the strings, Of cemetery things
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    Quote Originally Posted by tngirl1967 View Post
    I didn't take the book or the movie that way. I took it as he gave her a little action instead of words like Ashley!!! I just honestly would never have dreamed that situation out of that scene-- or consider it rape. OMG I can't believe a rape poster was created out of that scene!
    Me either ! I think someone with an overly active imagination came to that conclusion. First of all the board that kept decency in the movies would never have allowed that they had a fit over the word damn. People reached too far on that one.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie View Post
    I loved GWTW and Vivian. I could watch it a thousand times, and not get tired.

    Trivia: There was never a Tara in Atlanta, or out side Atlanta. For a time, a Governor's wife told people her house was Tara, but it was built much later.

    During the Olympics in 1996, we all had to endure the question "Now, where exactly is Tara?". There was alot of talk about building a Gone with the Wind theme park, prior to the Olympics, but it never materialized. As far as the fictional location of Tara, when Scarlett writes the property tax check, it is made out to the Tax Collector of Clayton County, which is a county just south of Atlanta.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazbabee View Post
    I don't know the dynamics associated with vocal coaches, but I do remember reading on more than one occasion that British and Southern accents are actually very interchangeable. I believe it had to do with rhythm/cadence and that it was fairly easy for a Brit to do a good Southern accent and vice versa.....go figure ????

    If you listen closely to an Irish accent, many of the pronunciations are very much like Southern dialects....and alot of us Southerners are just as Irish as the folks in Boston!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorbidMolly View Post
    I`ve seen that movie a thousand times, and I`ve seen no rape...if your talking about Rhett kicking ass and taking her up those stairs, I wouldn`t call that rape....obviously by her charming southern humming the next day .....have I missed something ????
    No, you are exactly right.
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    Now THAT'S what I'm talkin bout!

    Quote Originally Posted by Katie View Post
    I agree with you in both cases. It really doesn't matter what the size is, it's what you can do with it, right?
    Yes, it ain't the meat its the motion!
    I cried for shoes .... til I met a man with no feet.


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    Quote Originally Posted by leevancleef View Post
    haha, me too i dont care if he had a little one as Carole Lombard said!
    I know I replying to this quote over 2 months later but I have to ask. Did Carole Lombard really say that?! They were married and totally in love with each other. He went ballistic when her plane crashed - he wanted to go search the wreckage for her. Would she have really have said such a thing about her husband who she, by all accounts, loved?

  24. #74
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    Vivien was an unusual creature, she loved to play games and how to kill babies sounds like ....um fun!

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiegirl View Post
    Wow, these pics are awesome!
    She had very large hands and was very self conscious of them, she wore very large rings. gloves and did all she could not to draw attention to them!

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    But Vivian had exhibited signs of mania and depression long before she would have ever encountered Greeson. Her tuberculosis exascerbated the mental distress! Even during the making of GWTW she was showing her illness! Greeson was a quack but Vivian was unwell decades before he was involved. I think he was more of a blight on Marilyn than Vivian! Maybe he preyed on unstable beautiful women!

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by RLR12 View Post
    I know I replying to this quote over 2 months later but I have to ask. Did Carole Lombard really say that?! They were married and totally in love with each other. He went ballistic when her plane crashed - he wanted to go search the wreckage for her. Would she have really have said such a thing about her husband who she, by all accounts, loved?
    My Dr was recently saying size isnt really a problem its more the technique of the lover! Gable must have had great technique! What other actors are know for their small family jewels?

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    She was raped by Rhett when she came back from Ms. Melanie's party for Ashley. They argued downstairs and he was drunk. He said, semi quote "You have turned me out while you chased after Ashley Wilkes, while you've dreamed of Ashley Wilkes. Well this is one night you're not turning ME out!" He grabs her and against her will, takes her to the bedroom where they ....apparently do the nasty! lol!
    [SIZE=4]Melissa[/SIZE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie View Post
    I agree with you in both cases. It really doesn't matter what the size is, it's what you can do with it, right?
    It ain't the meat, it's the motion, eh?
    Cindy Tapia
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    Quote Originally Posted by cherryghost View Post
    My Dr was recently saying size isnt really a problem its more the technique of the lover! Gable must have had great technique! What other actors are know for their small family jewels?

    He was known for being a lousy lay. LOMBARD had told her closest confidant FIELDSIE, "You know how much I love Papi, but I can't say that he's very good in bed."

    GABLE liked to utilize hookers because he said then he didn't have to perform, he could just get laid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RLR12 View Post
    I know I replying to this quote over 2 months later but I have to ask. Did Carole Lombard really say that?! They were married and totally in love with each other. He went ballistic when her plane crashed - he wanted to go search the wreckage for her. Would she have really have said such a thing about her husband who she, by all accounts, loved?

    She could have just been playing it cool, but those accounts of LOMBARD downplaying GABLE' prowess are varied and come from many sources. It sounds most probably accurate.

    GABLE was never mentioned as being one of HOLLYWOOD's well endowed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhicks0038 View Post
    She was raped by Rhett when she came back from Ms. Melanie's party for Ashley. They argued downstairs and he was drunk. He said, semi quote "You have turned me out while you chased after Ashley Wilkes, while you've dreamed of Ashley Wilkes. Well this is one night you're not turning ME out!" He grabs her and against her will, takes her to the bedroom where they ....apparently do the nasty! lol!
    I don't take that scene as a rape scene at all.......never even crossed my mind that anybody looked at it that way until I looked at this thread.
    Defunct the strings, Of cemetery things
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  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bidmor View Post
    but when Gable walked, his clacked together."
    As did Joan's!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KELT View Post
    She could have just been playing it cool, but those accounts of LOMBARD downplaying GABLE' prowess are varied and come from many sources. It sounds most probably accurate.

    GABLE was never mentioned as being one of HOLLYWOOD's well endowed.
    Wow, I can't imagine saying such a thing about my husband - except possibly to my closest friend and I know it would never go any further than that. But, even then I'm not sure I would - it seems so disloyal....
    I mean I would be most unhappy to find out my husband was telling his friends that my tw** was a black hole or something! Sheesh!

    But, you are probably right considering that it has come from a variety of different sources. It appears she repeated this comment to more than one person. Hollywood is just a different world, I guess......

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    That Hamilton Woman was on ABC here in Australia late last night! It was better than I remember it being and the chemistry between Larry and Viv was there. She looked lovely and it was hard to take your eyes off her.

    Thats what I like about Vivien Leigh!

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    There was a discussion about this about the "conjugal rape scene" on tv few years back..and the way those involved had talked it was about power..and him taking it from her and not denying him anymore for ashley..sexually and otherwise ..so he was going to "take it" .. as strong willed as she was..so no matter how happy she was the next day lol...it still was a rape dontcha think.. after all isnt rape more about the power and less about the sex...at least thats what i was always told..( every week on law and order)..ive considered it that from the first time i saw it..i know others dont see it that way..but thats what makes movies fun ..we see things differently and take something different away from it..this is a great thread

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiegirl View Post
    I don't take that scene as a rape scene at all.......never even crossed my mind that anybody looked at it that way until I looked at this thread.
    I never took it as a rape scene as much as a power struggle...which Rhett won, and regretted the victory. If he had raped her, she wouldn't have woken up the next morning smiling to herself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qulevergrrl View Post
    Please don't kill me if there already is one, but I searched and searched first...

    Anyway, I think the strangest thing about Ms. Leigh is not necessarily how she lived or died, but the roles she chose. Maybe they chose her.

    She oddly enough played two southern women who were raped. Both of those films are in AFI's top 20. GWTW of course, and Streetcar Named Desire. I think that is kind of a bizarre coicidence. Or choice. Must have taken a strong constitution for her to get into those characters.

    Also, there is a thread on Butterfly McQueen. GWTW was controversial in and of itself. There are people who won't even watch it to this day. She had to buck the tiger in that whole scene too.

    She wasn't raped in GWTW. That was the whole point. Read the book.

    Anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by qulevergrrl View Post
    Please don't kill me if there already is one, but I searched and searched first...

    Anyway, I think the strangest thing about Ms. Leigh is not necessarily how she lived or died, but the roles she chose. Maybe they chose her.

    She oddly enough played two southern women who were raped. Both of those films are in AFI's top 20. GWTW of course, and Streetcar Named Desire. I think that is kind of a bizarre coicidence. Or choice. Must have taken a strong constitution for her to get into those characters.

    Also, there is a thread on Butterfly McQueen. GWTW was controversial in and of itself. There are people who won't even watch it to this day. She had to buck the tiger in that whole scene too.

    Anyone?

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by qulevergrrl View Post
    Please don't kill me if there already is one, but I searched and searched first...

    Anyway, I think the strangest thing about Ms. Leigh is not necessarily how she lived or died, but the roles she chose. Maybe they chose her.

    She oddly enough played two southern women who were raped. Both of those films are in AFI's top 20. GWTW of course, and Streetcar Named Desire. I think that is kind of a bizarre coicidence. Or choice. Must have taken a strong constitution for her to get into those characters.

    Also, there is a thread on Butterfly McQueen. GWTW was controversial in and of itself. There are people who won't even watch it to this day. She had to buck the tiger in that whole scene too.

    She wasn't raped in GWTW. That was the whole point. Read the book.

    Anyone?

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    She wasn't raped in GWTW. That was the whole point.

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    Its hard to express in words but I felt it was more of a very primal seduction! I like many are very sensitive to the suggestion or otherwise of rape in film!

    She didnt appear like she was raped the next morning in her bed smiling like a cheshire cat and very smitten with Rett!

    I guess that scene really answers any doubt as to whether she was raped or not!
    Last edited by cherryghost; 07-05-2008 at 07:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOVSTORM View Post
    Me either ! I think someone with an overly active imagination came to that conclusion. First of all the board that kept decency in the movies would never have allowed that they had a fit over the word damn. People reached too far on that one.
    I disagree. You are viewing that scene post-feminism. Back in our Grandma's time, it wasn't expected that a woman would submit to sex with her husband and would never dream of turning him down. It was a different time and would not have been considered "rape" per se. There was no such thing as rape in marriage until about 20 years ago.

    Fast forward and take that scene and put it in today's context using say a Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt and what do you have? No means no, and Angelina is beating the crap out of Brad Pitt who is taking her upstairs for sex. That is a rape scene.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by cherryghost View Post
    Its hard to express in words but I felt it was more of a very primal seduction! I like many are very sensitive to the suggestion or otherwise of rape in film!

    She didnt appear like she was raped the next morning in her bed smiling like a cheshire cat and very smitten with Rett!

    I guess that scene really answers any doubt as to whether she was raped or not!
    Ditto!
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    I love how everyone has a different opinion on that scene..shows how so many can watch one movie and see so many different things..makes no one right and no one wrong..love to hear all the takes on it

  46. #96
    I saw a bio on Vivien Leigh years ago and perhaps it was rooted more in sensationalism than fact, but it basically made the claim she was severely mentally ill. She would sort of become other people for period of time, sort of like a multiple personality disorder. Laurence Olivier once had to drag her out of a bar where she was dressed like a whore trying to find sailors to sleep with. She claimed a few days later she had no knowledge of the event. One of the most interesting bios I ever saw but I don't remember what it was on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhicks0038 View Post
    She was raped by Rhett when she came back from Ms. Melanie's party for Ashley. They argued downstairs and he was drunk. He said, semi quote "You have turned me out while you chased after Ashley Wilkes, while you've dreamed of Ashley Wilkes. Well this is one night you're not turning ME out!" He grabs her and against her will, takes her to the bedroom where they ....apparently do the nasty! lol!
    I never took that as a rape scene. Especially since she was so happy about it the next day. I took it as a seduction. I can see why people, especially now a days, could consider it a rape. Back when it was written-I don't think it was looked at as a rape. Just he'd had enough-his wife had actually been having a mental affair with Ashley for years.

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    I had no idea that Quack Ralph Greenson was Vivian's Psychiatrist! Yeah he really screwed up Marilyn big time and back then they didn't have the medication they do now to treat Bi Polar disorder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by burgtwngrl View Post
    I had no idea that Quack Ralph Greenson was Vivian's Psychiatrist! Yeah he really screwed up Marilyn big time and back then they didn't have the medication they do now to treat Bi Polar disorder.
    Tony Curtis was also his patient. At least hes still alive....

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    I wonder what other famous people that Quack Screwed up in the Head?

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