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Thread: Stephen Hawking: There is no Heaven

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelleRain View Post
    I am one of the confused..

    I had a NDE. I died twice. Once in an ambulance, and again when I got to the hospital. All of the doctors that treated me said I should not be alive. I dont remember shit from those experiences. I didnt see a light, I didnt see God, or anyone like that.. Nothing. When I was dying, but still aware, I saw my dead Grandfather. He told me I would be ok, and it wasnt time for me to go with him. I have no clue if that was just my brain, (I had lost my grandfather about 4 months before) or if it was real. I like to believe it was real. Hearing him tell me I was going to be fine, made me believe no matter how bad it got, i was going to be ok. So when everyone was around my hospital bed when I woke up the next morning, crying and saying their good byes to me, I couldnt figure out why everyone was so sad. I couldnt talk, i had that dam tube down my throat, so I just squeezed everyones hand really hard. You know thats what they do in the movies... I believe in a Greater Power. I have been shown many miracles, not just in my case. I believe there is something out there..guiding us. Im not religious at all, and have a strong opinion on the churches, ect... But i do think there is something out there, whether you call him/her God, Goddess, Universe, Higher Power, whatever.
    I never had a near-death experience, but I have had a near dying experience

    For someone who calls himself a Christian, I have always had a more-or-less morbid fear of death. That is one reason I wound up on this forum - sort of like Rod Stewart, who had similar issues and decided to take a job as a gravedigger for a while as a sort of therapy.

    I guess it is not the dying that I fear so much as the prospect of no longer being me with all of my senses and faculties.

    Anyway, I had to call the rescue squad when I woke up in middle of the night with an acute asthma attack and could not get my breathing under control. It was about all I could do at the time to gasp into the phone that I could not breathe and I had unlocked the door so that the EMTs could get in.

    Now I was mildly suicidal at the time (yeah I know, that doesn't fit with the above, but that is how I am wired), so maybe that and oxygen deprivation account a little for what I experienced - but at that moment, I most assuredly wanted to live.

    I was sitting sort of half slumped over my desk, exactly where I am now, and I thought "well, this is as good a place to die as any, but I suppose I'd best try to stay alive until help arrives." So I started praying the Lord's Prayer under what little breath I still had. (I don't know the rosary by heart since I'm not Roman Catholic, and I had too much time to kill for a simple "Father into your hands I commend my spirit".) All at once I felt a tremendous sense of calm come over me, almost to the point of getting giddy. I remember coming to "forgive us our . . ." and I chuckled because I couldn't decide whether it should be "debts" or "trespasses", so I did one of each.

    SO after I had prayed the "Our Father ..." for I don't know how many times, the door burst open and the EMTs were there. I felt kind of resentful at first because everything had just been so peaceful and quiet, and now there were four strangers in my living room giving me an IV and oxygen and hooking me up to every machine known to man.

    I am no longer the least bit suicidal - although antidepressants may have a hand in that.
    I am also not nearly as afraid of dying as I used to be after this dress rehearsal.



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  2. #102
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    After my NDE, I wasnt afraid of death at all. before, I was, and Now, I am afraid even more. But for the year or 2 after my experience, I didnt have a fear of it at all. For me, it is the fear of the unknown. and I dont like the idea of being buried 6 ft under. I also do not like the idea of being burned into ash. LOL

    I dont know why I am so afraid now, I was so peaceful and with no pain when I was dying. So you would think it wouldnt be so bad.. but I am scared to death. I am also scared to death when I lose my parents. What am I gonna do without my mom.. My mom is my anchor, my rock, my everything. I cant think of life without her.

    Like you, Rose, I said the Lord's prayer when I was in the ambulance. I also felt a deep sense of peace.

  3. #103
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    An interesting fact: Jesus' real name was Rabbi Jesupha Bar David. Translated in Amurikan as Joe Junior Davidson.
    "Everybody is born, and everybody dies. Being born wasn't so bad , was it?"
    Peter the Hermit

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelleRain View Post
    After my NDE, I wasnt afraid of death at all. before, I was, and Now, I am afraid even more. But for the year or 2 after my experience, I didnt have a fear of it at all. For me, it is the fear of the unknown. and I dont like the idea of being buried 6 ft under. I also do not like the idea of being burned into ash. LOL

    I dont know why I am so afraid now, I was so peaceful and with no pain when I was dying. So you would think it wouldnt be so bad.. but I am scared to death. I am also scared to death when I lose my parents. What am I gonna do without my mom.. My mom is my anchor, my rock, my everything. I cant think of life without her.

    Like you, Rose, I said the Lord's prayer when I was in the ambulance. I also felt a deep sense of peace.
    By the time I was in the ambulance, I was feeling well enough again that I was flirting with the EMT. I guess I was feeling a little giddy. I remember that it took them a little while to get to the emergency room, and I told the guys up front it was OK and they should take their time. I also remember telling the woman in the back with me that if I'd known they were going to send her, I would have brought flowers.



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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebud666 View Post
    By the time I was in the ambulance, I was feeling well enough again that I was flirting with the EMT. I guess I was feeling a little giddy. I remember that it took them a little while to get to the emergency room, and I told the guys up front it was OK and they should take their time. I also remember telling the woman in the back with me that if I'd known they were going to send her, I would have brought flowers.
    Did she try and go for your schnitzel?
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerseysucks View Post
    Did she try and go for your schnitzel?
    Unfortunately no . . . but then, I wasn't feeling that well yet.

    I think I was just really glad to be alive, and a little embarassed about having to be taken to the hospital in ambulance. I joke a lot when I feel embarassed.



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  7. #107
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    When you die...there will be a special "surprise" in the end. Just watch...

  8. #108
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    Stephen Hawking is going to be on The Big Bang Theory on April 5th. He'll bw working with Sheldon.
    When you lose a parent you lose your past. When you lose a spouse you lose your present. When you lose a child you lose your future.
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  9. #109
    A Child's Innocent and Faith

    As early as the age of three I was instructed to believe in God and the Devil. I was told that if I was good, I would go to heaven....if bad, the fires down below awaited me. This was fine until I was about 14, and my mother told me that I was going to hell because I smoked cigarettes. I figured if that alone was going to get me there, I might as well just throw in the towel. No, I didn't go hog-wild and break every rule in the book....I just suspected I didn't have a chance no matter what I did.

    Now that I am old and have experienced many things, I don't think I am any smarter and have the answers to the hard questions...but I would like to believe that I have taken the after-life out of the small box that my parents put it in. Perhaps it is not so simple, narrow and cut and dry.

    I used to laugh at Shirley MacLaine, and all of her travels through time and space. I was not brought up to believe in reincarnation. I have always been interested in Ghost Hunting, but was suspicious of places that were haunted by children. Should they not have passed on due to their young age and innocents? I have always believed in live on other planets, but where does GOD fit into that?

    The more I learned the greater my confusion. The smarted I became book wise the weaker my faith. What's up with that? Could this be the reason you were not suppose to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge? I have no idea.

    What I have arrived at is maybe we have put GOD in a box. Maybe the moment you die or shall I say leave this life...where you go is where you are either needed, or suppose to be in order to learn more. I look at life as a training ground. Maybe you get all (A's) and go directly to a perfect place. Perhaps you were a (B) student and you go to a higher lever to complete your studies. If it's (C's) on your report card you just might have a do over. Perhaps with some memories of the past to help you along. A friend of mine once said he thought you kept coming back until you got it right. If you couldn't get out of the (D) level..., well life again with out crib notes. The people who flunked every course became the Charlie Manson's and Ted Bundy's of the world. This meant the (C) grade people were stuck with them and in order for them to get a better grade they had to figure out what to do with them.

    All joking aside...I think life is a training ground. You do not leave here with only two locations to go to, at least not at this point. After all...isn't there something in the Bible that states that you get a second chance...or did I read that wrong. Bottom line....I know I am not an A student.

  10. #110
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    He is unwell - amazed he has reached the age of 73

    http://www.torontosun.com/2015/11/10...niversity-says

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    Yeah - 73 is pretty amazing with his condition.

    I just read an article the other day saying that he was somehow involved with a Russian billionaire who was going to pump some bucks into the search for intelligent life. Seems that with his funding they will be able to vastly increase the amount of time and resources for that from some few hours per year by many fold.

    Good luck with that - I suggest that they focus the search on Washington DC.

    There again, why waste time and money. Odds are probably better that they will find some semblance of it out among the stars.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerseysucks View Post
    Why is it that all brainiacks are atiests?
    He'll have an athiests funeral, he'll be a guy who's all dressed up with no place to go.
    John von Neumann was an 'agnostic Catholic' who converted late in life.

  13. #113
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    Until we die - the whole way dead - we have absolutely no idea. I'm not especially afraid of death and fell that I've led a good enough life that I'll go to Heaven (or wherever my relatives who've gone before me are). If I had to compare my life to that of Mandella, Mother Theresa and that type of person, then, I'll end up in purgatory and probably see all of you (joking .

    I just wonder if in death we'll be forced (for lack of a better word) to stay in our own socioeconomic circles or if we can hang out with anyone we want. Meaning, is there a VIP section in Heaven?
    To understand the living, you got to commune with the dead.
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCourt View Post
    I just wonder if in death we'll be forced (for lack of a better word) to stay in our own socioeconomic circles or if we can hang out with anyone we want. Meaning, is there a VIP section in Heaven?
    LOL!

    Yeah, I bet the bluebloods will get really pissed if they let just any righteous souls have free run of the place.

    "Do you see who they just let in? There goes paradise; cloud nine just isn't what it used to be."

    In this life they just move to the suburbs; there has to be some similar allowance in heaven; otherwise how are you supposed to call it paradise?

    As a recovering Christian; I'm among those who now believe that there is no heaven or hell; just our current existence; and that when you're dead you're dead.
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  15. #115
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    ^ This.

    I believe when all is said and done - you go to the ground or to the wind or to sciense or wherever you or your next of kin decides is your 'final resting place'.

    My heaven is my ashes near a waterfall.

  16. #116
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    I really respect Stephen Hawking and his opinions.


    I'd like to think when i die I'll probably be reunited with loved ones that have also died. I read an interesting thing somewhere about no one knows what it's like to die/what happens as the brain tries to compare it to an experience in life, or something along those lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Chief View Post
    I really respect Stephen Hawking and his opinions.


    I'd like to think when i die I'll probably be reunited with loved ones that have also died. I read an interesting thing somewhere about no one knows what it's like to die/what happens as the brain tries to compare it to an experience in life, or something along those lines.
    Yes - he's a brilliant man; and must be quite an individual to deal with what he's dealt with and still produce quite a body of work.

    True, none of us know what that experience will be like; but all of us eventually will.

    I'm reminded of two things I've read in the last few months:

    "Where you are I have been. Where I am, you will be" - inscription on a tombstone or marker attributed to a Roman soldier.

    "Oh, wow. Wow" - supposedly the last words of Steve Jobs. I don't know if that makes me hopeful or fearful. Curious for sure; but still none to eager for that experience.
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  18. #118
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    I would like to know where exactly IS heaven? It's not "in the sky" or "on top of the clouds".
    Even looking into space for a distance of billions of light years did not reveal its location and it's kinda cheating to say heaven is on an exoplanet we cant see .

    Also the bible does not speak of alternate dimensions (assuming of course they exist).

    Anyone have any ideas on this?
    Some compare Elvis to God.. I mean He is good, but He is no Elvis

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerryvr View Post
    I would like to know where exactly IS heaven? Anyone have any ideas on this?
    Yeah - but just my opinions. It's in the minds of the people who believe in it; just like hell is.
    People have been on earth for - pardon the pun - God only knows how long; but only in the last couple of thousand years has the one true god seen fit to start getting involved with his favorite creation and dictate their rules of behavior. No one can be "saved" except by accepting Christ; yet there are still people in the world who have never heard of Jesus or Christianity or the bible. They're all going to hell because god didn't see fit to let them in on reality and the rules?
    Naturally, I could go on and on; but to me, heaven is in the minds of the believers and no place else.
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    Coming late to this thread,and as a Christian who does believe in life after death , it always amazes me that whenever people get into real dire straits - they cry out to God to help them whether they believe or not.
    It's funny but if you have faith in your life you KNOW that Jesus is real as you can feel him working in your life .No we won't have earthly forms , we won't eat or need to sleep , we'll never get ill or depressed .Our tiny brains can't take in the thought of eternity and that's why we just have to have faith in God because none of us are good enough.To answer the q above - will all those who never heard of Jesus go to hell ?no ,no more than suicides will.In Romans it states "nothing can separate us from Gods love- not life nor death neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow--not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love." Our bodies will die but our spirits will live on.

    Amen ! here endeth the 11th chapter


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    That's rather like me saying that I KNOW there is no god; that I KNOW that Jesus never existed...

    Some things can't be known; they can only be believed and accepted as certainty no matter the proof or the truth - neither point of view can be proven. Many people of many different religions of course think that they are right - they are certain that their god is the one and only true god and that everyone else is wrong; even though all of those different religions are equally credible, or incredible; as the case may be.
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    That's rather like me saying that I KNOW there is no god; that I KNOW that Jesus never existed...

    Some things can't be known; they can only be believed and accepted as certainty no matter the proof or the truth - neither point of view can be proven. Many people of many different religions of course think that they are right - they are certain that their god is the one and only true god and that everyone else is wrong; even though all of those different religions are equally credible, or incredible; as the case may be.
    That's what faith is. I can only speak or myself, but everyone who believes in God believes there is only one God but as there are thousands of different languages on Earth doesn't it make sense that there is more than one name for "God"? Any time there is talk of religious, etc., this example gets brought up and if some simpleton like me can grasp that, I don't know why they can't.
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCourt View Post
    That's what faith is. I can only speak or myself, but everyone who believes in God believes there is only one God but as there are thousands of different languages on Earth doesn't it make sense that there is more than one name for "God"? Any time there is talk of religious, etc., this example gets brought up and if some simpleton like me can grasp that, I don't know why they can't.
    Why are the attributes assigned to those gods so different and the beliefs of the followers so diverse?

    Cultural\language differences shouldn't be able to alter the truth.

    Even with Christianity - why so many different sects with so many different beliefs?

    I'd rather be simple but rational; smarts will fail you in the absence of common sense.

    Faith is all well and good but it injects no truth or substance into any matter except in the minds of those who hold it. Belief is to truth as want is to need - one might equate to the other; or maybe not.
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    Why are the attributes assigned to those gods so different and the beliefs of the followers so diverse?

    Cultural\language differences shouldn't be able to alter the truth.

    Even with Christianity - why so many different sects with so many different beliefs?

    I'd rather be simple but rational; smarts will fail you in the absence of common sense.

    Faith is all well and good but it injects no truth or substance into any matter except in the minds of those who hold it. Belief is to truth as want is to need - one might equate to the other; or maybe not.
    I don't have the answers to your questions. Sorry. Everyone needs to do what is the best thing for them and it just so happens that I'm a believer.
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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    Why are the attributes assigned to those gods so different and the beliefs of the followers so diverse?

    Cultural\language differences shouldn't be able to alter the truth.

    Even with Christianity - why so many different sects with so many different beliefs?

    I'd rather be simple but rational; smarts will fail you in the absence of common sense.

    Faith is all well and good but it injects no truth or substance into any matter except in the minds of those who hold it. Belief is to truth as want is to need - one might equate to the other; or maybe not.
    The diversity exists because of interpretation. Instead of looking at the differences in what everyone believes, look at what is universal, a higher power. Call him/her god, allah, buddah, Zeus...whatever. I think the existence of a higher, intelligent power is almost obvious if you simply examine the complexity of life and the universe. Evolution is real but not to the extent you go from an amoeba to a human being.
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  26. #126
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    God is a message broadcast since the beginning of time. Earth humans are just mass produced receivers whose dial isnt quite set on a station.
    Victory will belong only to those who have faith in the people, those who are immersed in the life-giving spring of popular creativity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ichabodius View Post
    God is a message broadcast since the beginning of time. Earth humans are just mass produced receivers whose dial isnt quite set on a station.
    Ich; I can't think of a more brilliant way to say that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    The diversity exists because of interpretation. Instead of looking at the differences in what everyone believes, look at what is universal, a higher power. Call him/her god, allah, buddah, Zeus...whatever. I think the existence of a higher, intelligent power is almost obvious if you simply examine the complexity of life and the universe. Evolution is real but not to the extent you go from an amoeba to a human being.
    I personally don't think that the existence of a higher power is obvious or almost so based upon the complexity of life or the beauty of our world. I can see how it all just came about initially by happenstance and then natural selection took over. And yeah - I think evolution did happen that way - amoeba to human; one tiny bit at a time over millions of years.

    I read something last night that rings true for me - that every since humans started creating gods; they have assigned them attributes based upon their particular cultures; and those attributes evolve not just based upon culture; but also based upon the age in which people live.

    An example of this might be that the god of the bible; when giving victory in warfare to his "chosen"; instructs his followers to kill their enemies - kill all of the men, kill all of the women, kill all of the children - kill their livestock and their pets too. That was the way of the world in that day and age; so that's what people claimed god would want them to do.

    That's not our way; here anyway; anymore, and I don't think that too many people today would believe that god wants you to kill every living thing among your vanquished enemies.

    One of the things that says to me most loudly that god is made by men and that those men assigned attributes to god based upon their own sensibilities; is that while you're killing every living thing you've vanquished; feel free to keep the virgin women as slaves. That doesn't sound like divine direction to me; but it does sound like something that men might find desirable.

    I choose to believe that life here came about due to a fortuitous and random combination of chemicals and elements; in an environment conducive to development.
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  28. #128
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    he is making speeches again - happy 74th birthday

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...t-way-out.html

  29. #129
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    says he is going to outer space - no way he is physically able to do this

    https://futurism.com/stephen-hawking...o-outer-space/

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash View Post
    says he is going to outer space - no way he is physically able to do this

    https://futurism.com/stephen-hawking...o-outer-space/

    When I read that today , it was the first thought I had .It's obviously something he wants very much and he seems determined to take the risk - whatever the outcome .

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by artymorty View Post
    When I read that today , it was the first thought I had .It's obviously something he wants very much and he seems determined to take the risk - whatever the outcome .
    If he can go to space then I am going to run a marathon

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    Good luck to him with that - I hope he makes it.
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    Why are people so offended by the thought of life after death? Why is it that people have faith and hope that their is a better place than this? I live the most putrid unsuccessful impoverished life. Is it so wrong for me to want to go to a better place where for once I can feel happy? To be reunited with the love of my life little girl or my parents and grandmother? What is so wrong about having faith in a higher power. Here's a thought if you are mad at God how could you be mad at someone you don't believe in? I believe in God but I haven't been on the best of terms with him.
    When you lose a parent you lose your past. When you lose a spouse you lose your present. When you lose a child you lose your future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerseysucks View Post
    Why are people so offended by the thought of life after death? Why is it that people have faith and hope that their is a better place than this? I live the most putrid unsuccessful impoverished life. Is it so wrong for me to want to go to a better place where for once I can feel happy? To be reunited with the love of my life little girl or my parents and grandmother? What is so wrong about having faith in a higher power. Here's a thought if you are mad at God how could you be mad at someone you don't believe in? I believe in God but I haven't been on the best of terms with him.
    I'm not offended by the concept or belief in life after death - I just personally don't see any reason to accept that it might be real. I think that life is what we experience between the bookends of oblivion. We knew nothing before birth; we know nothing after death, just IMO. Some people think that's a sad or disheartening point of view; I don't think it's any more sad than the fact that fire is hot or that water is wet; that's just the way it is as I see\accept it.

    Nothing wrong with faith either - see above statement for my position on that too. Anyone who claims to not believe in God, yet who is angry with God, must be having a crisis of lack of faith. As you pointed out; doesn't seem that you could disbelieve yet harbor anger at the same time.

    Some atheists might have a problem with the Christian concept of an all powerful God who can will anything at all into existence - or out of existence - yet who allows things like suffering and hatred; but who is also described as all loving.

    I'm not going to get off into the many things that changed my mind on the subject; they are many. I'm content to embrace my lack of belief until something(s) come along that make me change it again. I'm not interested in trying to convince others that they shouldn't have faith - they can make up their minds just as I did mine.
    What do we want!?
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  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    I'm not offended by the concept or belief in life after death - I just personally don't see any reason to accept that it might be real. I think that life is what we experience between the bookends of oblivion. We knew nothing before birth; we know nothing after death, just IMO. Some people think that's a sad or disheartening point of view; I don't think it's any more sad than the fact that fire is hot or that water is wet; that's just the way it is as I see\accept it.

    Nothing wrong with faith either - see above statement for my position on that too. Anyone who claims to not believe in God, yet who is angry with God, must be having a crisis of lack of faith. As you pointed out; doesn't seem that you could disbelieve yet harbor anger at the same time.

    Some atheists might have a problem with the Christian concept of an all powerful God who can will anything at all into existence - or out of existence - yet who allows things like suffering and hatred; but who is also described as all loving.

    I'm not going to get off into the many things that changed my mind on the subject; they are many. I'm content to embrace my lack of belief until something(s) come along that make me change it again. I'm not interested in trying to convince others that they shouldn't have faith - they can make up their minds just as I did mine.
    Speaking as an agnostic who leans toward believing in a Supreme Being, you are illustrating one of the great strengths of atheism: nobody has ever knocked on my door trying to convince me that God doesn't exist, and I have mad respect for that. Insisting everybody agree with your belief is a sign of insecurity, and you generally don't get that from atheists.
    "In a soldier's stance I aim my hand / At the mongrel dogs who teach / Fearing not I'd become my enemy / In the instant that I preach"
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  36. #136
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    There are two ways one can think of this. 1) You can look at the world and see evidence everywhere that there is a supreme being and simply have faith without the benefit of conclusive evidence or 2) look at the world and see evidence everywhere that there is no supreme being and not believe. There is a precedence for number 1. In 1917 Einstein predicted black holes existed through his theory of relativity. He was in conflict with himself because he couldn't conceive how his equations could lead to such an unthinkable result. In 1971 we found the first one. My point is that our abilities presently to be able to measure or find conclusive evidence does not automatically rule out the existence.
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  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upset View Post
    Speaking as an agnostic who leans toward believing in a Supreme Being, you are illustrating one of the great strengths of atheism: nobody has ever knocked on my door trying to convince me that God doesn't exist, and I have mad respect for that. Insisting everybody agree with your belief is a sign of insecurity, and you generally don't get that from atheists.
    Most of us realize that there's no proving either point of view. Obviously, most of us are confident that our view is the correct or most likely correct one, but who the heck can say?

    When I look at various things from the perspective that God is real; lots of things just don't add up for me. When I look at those same things from the perspective that God is not real; then I see pretty much what I would expect to see - laws of nature and random occurrences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    There are two ways one can think of this. 1) You can look at the world and see evidence everywhere that there is a supreme being and simply have faith without the benefit of conclusive evidence or 2) look at the world and see evidence everywhere that there is no supreme being and not believe. There is a precedence for number 1. In 1917 Einstein predicted black holes existed through his theory of relativity. He was in conflict with himself because he couldn't conceive how his equations could lead to such an unthinkable result. In 1971 we found the first one. My point is that our abilities presently to be able to measure or find conclusive evidence does not automatically rule out the existence.
    That's very true as to our abilities to find evidence.
    But where some see evidence that God exists, I don't see anything suggesting or requiring some super natural force to be at the heart of it.
    I think that everything which exists could come about through natural processes; no miracles or any intelligent designer needed.

    As time and knowledge progress, we have fewer and fewer things that can't be explained without invoking deities or miracles; I expect that to continue.

    I tend to think that an explanation for any given thing is more likely to be the correct one when it requires no divine intervention or miracles in order to be true.
    What do we want!?
    Evidence-based science!

    When do we want it!?
    After peer review!

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