Chardon High School Shooting

[SheBoss]

they do anyway.

So the answer would be to get rid of all the good guys' guns? That way, just the bad guys would have them? Just asking and not to you in particular.

[Finnegan]

So the answer would be to get rid of all the good guys' guns? That way, just the bad guys would have them? Just asking and not to you in particular.

no worries.
who are the good guys? most americans I know don't walk around toting a gun. so the bad guys robbing a store with a gun are going to shoot innocent people.
these kids have easy access to guns to go to school and shoot innocent people.
I just feel it's gonna be pretty rare that a "good guy" and a "bad guy" are in a shoot out and thank god the good guy had a gun too.

[Rosebud666]

If the good guys aren't allowed to carry it lets the bad guys kill innocent people.

Firearms death rates per 100,00 population by country
Excerpted from The International Journal of Epidemiology, 1998; 27:214-221
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/27/2/214.full.pdf

1994 or latest available figures as of 1998
United States 15.22
Northern Ireland 6.82
...
Finland 6.82
Canada 4.78
Norway 4.39
...
Denmark 2.60
Sweden 2.36
Germany 1.57
Kuwait !!! 1.25
...
England/Wales 0.46
...

Japan 0.07

I'd say you are wrong . . . or else the good guys are mowing them down left and right.
Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil . . . for I am the fastest gun in the valley and I am packing heat!?

[SheBoss]

no worries.
who are the good guys? most americans I know don't walk around toting a gun. so the bad guys robbing a store with a gun are going to shoot innocent people.
these kids have easy access to guns to go to school and shoot innocent people.
I just feel it's gonna be pretty rare that a "good guy" and a "bad guy" are in a shoot out and thank god the good guy had a gun too.

I don't tote a gun, Finn. But I have one in my car and several in my house. Fair warning: If you come in my house intending to do me or mine harm, you will leave assisted or unassisted with many more holes in your person than when you started your adventure. I'm one hell of a shot, and I will shoot to injure first - read that as the kneecap or privates. I;m just sadistic that way. If I tire of your screaming and crying, I will just end you. Now, I don't go out looking for trouble by any means, but if trouble comes to me, I ain't skeered of it!

Oh yeah! And I will get pics to post for all my death hags!

[monroe27]

this stuff makes me scared for my 5 year old in the future. back when I was a kid we never, ever thought of bringing a gun to school! its ridiculous what kids go through these days. i just watched a lifetime movie the other day where this girl sexted her boyfriend and the pic was delivered to the whole school! And of course they gave the girl grief for it and she eventually killed herself. what is this world coming too? They need to really push to have clubs ( I think thats what they are called or organizations maybe?) assemblys, etc to teach children about bullying and respect for one another and it also needs to happen in the home as well. Parents need to stress the importance of respect and how to treat one another. I'm not pointing the finger and blaming anyone by any means. I just wish there was more we all could do about things such as this. its happening way to frequently.

[radiojane]

My issue with the "good guys" being armed is that use of a gun is a judgment call that could be made with good faith, but well, BAD judgment. I also think the presence of weapons instills fear, and I don't think that adding more fear to situations such as high schools is a good thing.

[radiojane]

this stuff makes me scared for my 5 year old in the future. back when I was a kid we never, ever thought of bringing a gun to school! its ridiculous what kids go through these days. i just watched a lifetime movie the other day where this girl sexted her boyfriend and the pic was delivered to the whole school! And of course they gave the girl grief for it and she eventually killed herself. what is this world coming too? They need to really push to have clubs ( I think thats what they are called or organizations maybe?) assemblys, etc to teach children about bullying and respect for one another and it also needs to happen in the home as well. Parents need to stress the importance of respect and how to treat one another. I'm not pointing the finger and blaming anyone by any means. I just wish there was more we all could do about things such as this. its happening way to frequently.

I personally think cellphones and Facebook have contributed to making high school worse than it has EVER been. I am so grateful I was out the door long before we had technology more advanced than ICQ.

[SheBoss]

this stuff makes me scared for my 5 year old in the future. back when I was a kid we never, ever thought of bringing a gun to school! its ridiculous what kids go through these days. i just watched a lifetime movie the other day where this girl sexted her boyfriend and the pic was delivered to the whole school! And of course they gave the girl grief for it and she eventually killed herself. what is this world coming too? They need to really push to have clubs ( I think thats what they are called or organizations maybe?) assemblys, etc to teach children about bullying and respect for one another and it also needs to happen in the home as well. Parents need to stress the importance of respect and how to treat one another. I'm not pointing the finger and blaming anyone by any means. I just wish there was more we all could do about things such as this. its happening way to frequently.

I guess it's just in the way we all grew up differently. Everyone I knew brought a gun to school. We just all had enough sense to keep them in our vehicles. Most of the girls kept one in their glove boxes (given to them by their daddies for protection, just as mine was) and most of the boys were probably going hunting after school, so they kept one or more in the gun rack behind their seats in their pickup trucks. We all knew we had them, but no one would EVER think of taking them out of their respective resting places, not even to show them around. And we CERTAINLY would never take them inside the building. But then, I'm old. When I was in school, we (not me personally) settled things with our fists, we would never use a gun. Even in the teenage years of high school, we knew when we shot someone, they would stay dead.

[SheBoss]

My issue with the "good guys" being armed is that use of a gun is a judgment call that could be made with good faith, but well, BAD judgment. I also think the presence of weapons instills fear, and I don't think that adding more fear to situations such as high schools is a good thing.

You do make a good point as always, Jane. Please see my above post...

[SheBoss]

I personally think cellphones and Facebook have contributed to making high school worse than it has EVER been. I am so grateful I was out the door long before we had technology more advanced than ICQ.

LOL! What's ICQ?

[radiojane]

You do make a good point as always, Jane. Please see my above post...

Your above post, and please don't take this as an affront, because it's not, just floored me. I cannot imagine everyone having guns, never mind my father giving me one for protection. Where I'm from, cops have guns, and hunters have them in fancy plastic cases high up in the garage. Farmers always had one decrepit looking rifle in the back porch, but the bullets were always in their pockets. It's a really awesome illustration of the how different things are from one region to another, and one generation to another and where everyone's points of views come from.

LOL! What's ICQ?

It was a chat room way back in the day I think. I wasn't cool enough to be on it.

[monroe27]

I personally think cellphones and Facebook have contributed to making high school worse than it has EVER been. I am so grateful I was out the door long before we had technology more advanced than ICQ.

totally agree with you...you hit the nail on the head. I graduated in 98 (showing my age here) and people had pagers...there was no social networks or anything like that

[racingfan]

Hey, we all have our opinions. Ain't it great to be able to voice or type them whenever we please?

Playing devil's advocate here, haven't these school killers figured out yet that if you go on a killing spree aimed at people you dislike/hate, all you're doing is immortalizing them? At that point, aren't you getting the exact opposite reaction you want? Can't these kids think about the consequences anymore? This, of course, is if you could get away with it and aren't having to worry about those pesky little problems like the swat team coming after you...

So valid. It's not like you can just go to school, shoot them, and come back the next day and the janitor's cleaned up all the blood and brains, and life goes on merrily.

[radiojane]

totally agree with you...you hit the nail on the head. I graduated in 98 (showing my age here) and people had pagers...there was no social networks or anything like that

And I was five years after you, and kids were just starting to get permission to take their parent's cell phones to carry when they were driving. Five years down the road every single kid had a cell and teachers were going nuts taking them away in classes and there were even ring tones that older people couldn't hear so they could be used undetected.

[racingfan]

totally agree with you...you hit the nail on the head. I graduated in 98 (showing my age here) and people had pagers...there was no social networks or anything like that

Lol -- I'm a '98 grad too. And yep, there was no Facebook or texting. In that way, we had it easier. We could escape most of the BS once we were off school grounds (unless they harassed you at home, but then you had a different issue).

Your above post, and please don't take this as an affront, because it's not, just floored me. I cannot imagine everyone having guns, never mind my father giving me one for protection. Where I'm from, cops have guns, and hunters have them in fancy plastic cases high up in the garage. Farmers always had one decrepit looking rifle in the back porch, but the bullets were always in their pockets. It's a really awesome illustration of the how different things are from one region to another, and one generation to another and where everyone's points of views come from.




It was a chat room way back in the day I think. I wasn't cool enough to be on it.

Lol -- ICQ! I had totally forgotten about that! I actually didn't like it as much as AIM, I remember. Wow, that brought back memories....

[babyblujems]

If the good guys aren't allowed to carry it lets the bad guys kill innocent people.

Exactly, the ones who do the most damage with guns are the ones who are not within their legal right while carrying them. And banning guns, or re-visiting the 2nd Amendment as someone said, is not the answer. Guns are banned in England and now people kill with knives or other more inventive ways.

[racingfan]

Well, so much for our discussions of bullying, the victims' roles, etc. The kid says he picked his victims totally at random. What a POS.

http://www.cleveland.com/chardon-sho...ootings_a.html

[Rosebud666]

I don't tote a gun, Finn. But I have one in my car and several in my house. Fair warning: If you come in my house intending to do me or mine harm, you will leave assisted or unassisted with many more holes in your person than when you started your adventure. I'm one hell of a shot, and I will shoot to injure first - read that as the kneecap or privates. I;m just sadistic that way. If I tire of your screaming and crying, I will just end you. Now, I don't go out looking for trouble by any means, but if trouble comes to me, I ain't skeered of it!

Oh yeah! And I will get pics to post for all my death hags!

WWJS - Who would Jesus shoot?

[Mammy]

Monroe, there are programs in some schools to teach children the consequences of bullying and mistreating classmates. There is a program named "Rachel's Challenge" in honor of Rachel Scott who was killed at Columbine. Her parents and brother talk to children in the auditorium at school about bullying and the proper ways to interract with each other. It may help the children who pay attention to what is being said and don't close their minds at the beginning of the speech and decide they don't care. I know it was really a popular program when Columbine was a fresh memory, I'm not sure about now. I know the family still tours schools and does the program because they did it at the school my nieces attend a couple of years ago.

One of the linked articles above said this was an alternative school where the shooting occured and that the shooter was being raised by his grandparents. His dad has a violent history and a very long rap sheet and the mom has been in trouble quite a bit, too. It also said one of the victims was dating the shooter's ex-girlfriend, so that doesn't sound entirely random. I wonder what the little psycho thinks about himself right now?

[racingfan]

Monroe, there are programs in some schools to teach children the consequences of bullying and mistreating classmates. There is a program named "Rachel's Challenge" in honor of Rachel Scott who was killed at Columbine. Her parents and brother talk to children in the auditorium at school about bullying and the proper ways to interract with each other. It may help the children who pay attention to what is being said and don't close their minds at the beginning of the speech and decide they don't care. I know it was really a popular program when Columbine was a fresh memory, I'm not sure about now. I know the family still tours schools and does the program because they did it at the school my nieces attend a couple of years ago.

One of the linked articles above said this was an alternative school where the shooting occured and that the shooter was being raised by his grandparents. His dad has a violent history and a very long rap sheet and the mom has been in trouble quite a bit, too. It also said one of the victims was dating the shooter's ex-girlfriend, so that doesn't sound entirely random. I wonder what the little psycho thinks about himself right now?

What's strange is, I've heard in recent years that Columbine might not have been a case of bullying either...Eric Harris was just a psychopath. And it sounds like this kid was too. But I know it's been a factor in other school shootings, and it's still a huge issue that needs addressing. But sadly, sometimes there is no justification. There's just a meanness in this world.

[Mammy]

I never really bought into the idea that Columbine had anything to do with bullying anyway, but I guess it makes Rachel's parents feel better to try to make a difference. The reason I say that is because Eric and Dylan had claimed to be mistreated by jocks, which may or may not have been true, but the majority of the kids who died weren't athletes at all. Isaiah Schoels was a really small black boy and they called him the "N" word before shooting him. Kyle Velasquez had Down's Syndrome and they called him a retard before shooting him. Kelly Fleming had a facial deformity and they taunted her about that before shooting her. Rachel Scott was described as a kind and sweet girl who was friendly to everyone and they shot her three times. There were some jocks in the group, but more of the victims weren't jocks at all. Eric was evil and was on medication for anger issues and depression and Dylan Klebold was on medication for depression and was more of a follower of Eric. I doubt if Dylan would have ever done anything like this without Eric's influence and they fed off of each other's behavior. It's the same for Michael Carneal in the Paducah, Ky school shootings. Michael was geeky and small for his age and would say or do outrageous things just to get attention which made people talk about him being weird. There were also people who had spread rumors about him being gay, but the girls he killed were his friends and he was in band with them and had nothing to do with the rumors. Nicole Hadley especially was a good friend of his and she was the first one he shot. I think he said outrageous things to get attention and after saying some things and then not doing them, people started to ignore him and quit paying attention to him because they thought he was all hot air. He had to do something big to prove he wasn't bluffing this time. I know that sounds insane, but he was only fourteen at the time and that was an explanation he gave for what he did. He wanted to prove to everyone that he wasn't lying. You can't apply logic to a nut with impulse control problems.

[ichabodius]

Yeah, more guns, that's the solution (insert snark to the max here)!

Reminds of one of my favorite Dead Milkmen songs:




That said I dont think any more restrictions on an individuals right to acquire and possess firearms are necessary. Americans need to reexamine the romanticism glamorization and acceptance of violence in society and popular culture.

[racingfan]

I never really bought into the idea that Columbine had anything to do with bullying anyway, but I guess it makes Rachel's parents feel better to try to make a difference. The reason I say that is because Eric and Dylan had claimed to be mistreated by jocks, which may or may not have been true, but the majority of the kids who died weren't athletes at all. Isaiah Schoels was a really small black boy and they called him the "N" word before shooting him. Kyle Velasquez had Down's Syndrome and they called him a retard before shooting him. Kelly Fleming had a facial deformity and they taunted her about that before shooting her. Rachel Scott was described as a kind and sweet girl who was friendly to everyone and they shot her three times. There were some jocks in the group, but more of the victims weren't jocks at all. Eric was evil and was on medication for anger issues and depression and Dylan Klebold was on medication for depression and was more of a follower of Eric. I doubt if Dylan would have ever done anything like this without Eric's influence and they fed off of each other's behavior. It's the same for Michael Carneal in the Paducah, Ky school shootings. Michael was geeky and small for his age and would say or do outrageous things just to get attention which made people talk about him being weird. There were also people who had spread rumors about him being gay, but the girls he killed were his friends and he was in band with them and had nothing to do with the rumors. Nicole Hadley especially was a good friend of his and she was the first one he shot. I think he said outrageous things to get attention and after saying some things and then not doing them, people started to ignore him and quit paying attention to him because they thought he was all hot air. He had to do something big to prove he wasn't bluffing this time. I know that sounds insane, but he was only fourteen at the time and that was an explanation he gave for what he did. He wanted to prove to everyone that he wasn't lying. You can't apply logic to a nut with impulse control problems.

I think in some of these cases, we want to believe it's bullying or that something drove these kids to do what they did. No one wants to believe that a kid could kill for no reason at all. I think we're less forgiving of adults. For example, I don't recall anyone making excuses for Cho when he shot up VA Tech. We still want to know why, what drove them to commit such a sick act, but we rarely say the victims had some culpability and we don't try to rationalize it. But I've come to believe some people are just born without empathy, without the part of the brain that says "Killing is wrong".

[racingfan]

Whole thing me think of this old classic...

http://youtu.be/8yteMugRAc0

[SheeBee]

This is not addressed to anyone who has posted here directly. So please don't think I'm picking on anyone here.

I work in the education system, I have done Crisis Management for years. I get really frustrated when people automatically label children who killed as being bullied. Columbine had nothing to do with being bullied. This topic is of course very close to my heart and I started immediately following the news reports. People search for answers and they want to assign a reason that a kid kills. He was bullied...he had a bad home life...he was a goth...he was a loner... I have read every one of those comments coming from reputable news agency.

We are becoming an excuse society. "my kid did this because..." I hear this from parents and teachers. Sometimes kids just do really bad things. He may not even have a reason for what he did. He was mad, he was angry, he was depressed, he needed attention, he wanted to be famous....

I just want to take reporters and shake the crap out of them.

I like Rachel's challenge. I think it's a wonderful tool for High School students. It won't replace core values but it's a good way to get into the schools and affect some kids.

[Mammy]

My nieces were both impressed by Rachel's Challenge and what they learned has stayed with them. I agree that some people are born sociopaths and don't always need an excuse to kill someone other than they felt like it. Plenty of people have bad home lives and have never killed anyone. It's just like Alyssa Bustamante who lured her nine year old neighbor into the woods by telling her she had a surprise for her and the surprise turned out to be the grave Alyssa had dug beforehand to bury Elizabeth in after Alyssa brutally murdered her because she wanted to see what killing someone felt like. As heinous as the crime was, a lot of people talked about the fact that Alyssa was too young for a long prison sentence and had a rough life. Some people just have it in them to do away with anyone who is of no use to them or in their way like Jordan Brown who murdered his dad's eight month pregnant girlfriend by shooting her in the back of the head while she was in bed. He was eleven at the time and people think he shouldn't be punished harshly because of that. He shot her, disposed of the shell casings on the way to the bus stop, and lied about a strange black truck being at the house. He seemed to have it all figured out to be such a misunderstood little child. He'll be tried by the juvenile system and be back on the streets in less than ten years.

[radiojane]

Yeah I think bullying is a catch all explanation a lot of times. Kids with problems sometimes come into the game with them.

[hemleeck]

Just watched the movie "Beautiful Boy" today. What devastation it causes. I don't think teen's brains are developed to the point that what they're doing is permanent.

[SheBoss]

WWJS - Who would Jesus shoot?

Sinners fall short everyday...

[SheBoss]

This is not addressed to anyone who has posted here directly. So please don't think I'm picking on anyone here.

I work in the education system, I have done Crisis Management for years. I get really frustrated when people automatically label children who killed as being bullied. Columbine had nothing to do with being bullied. This topic is of course very close to my heart and I started immediately following the news reports. People search for answers and they want to assign a reason that a kid kills. He was bullied...he had a bad home life...he was a goth...he was a loner... I have read every one of those comments coming from reputable news agency.

We are becoming an excuse society. "my kid did this because..." I hear this from parents and teachers. Sometimes kids just do really bad things. He may not even have a reason for what he did. He was mad, he was angry, he was depressed, he needed attention, he wanted to be famous....

I just want to take reporters and shake the crap out of them.

I like Rachel's challenge. I think it's a wonderful tool for High School students. It won't replace core values but it's a good way to get into the schools and affect some kids.

I think people (parents especially) need to have an excuse for why a kid does something. Otherwise, what's to keep THEIR kid from doing the same? It's harsh, but I think it's grounded in reality.

[monroe27]

I just question the fact of why it seems to happen so frequently these days and you never heard of it happening when I was growing up...somethings wrong, and perhaps we will never know. And yes the media does make it seem that a lot of these cases are stemming from bullying, that was why I initially went with the bullying angle

[TaupinJohn]

That reminded me of:

Violence on the level of that committed at Columbine High School is still rare in American society, although it may well now become more common; there is a powerful reverb unit hooked up to the already- amplified teenage culture. In that amp-cult, things like huffing, tattooing, and body-piercing spread almost at the speed of e-mail; the lure of the gun may spread in much the same way. And the guns are out there. As I said in The Stand, at some tiresome length, all that stuff is out there, just lying around and waiting for the wrong person to pick it up. -- Stephen King

[racingfan]

I think it depends on whether you're talking about the mass, random shootings at schools or the ones where a specific student or teacher is targeted. The former seems to have gotten more frequent in recent decades, but in general, cases I'd students killing each other are not new.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

Some of it's the media. First off, we're hearing about it more. Now, I'd be a hypocrite for criticizing all the coverage, because I'm clamoring for more and more details as much as the next person, but -- and this brings me to my second point -- these headlines and attention might be seductive to a lonely, disturbed kid. In many ways, the media glamorizes these cases, and I think that might be another reason we're seeing more and more these mass school shootings.

[Tiger]

That boy just looks so average unlike Kip Kinkle who even looked like a nutter in his pictures. I agree that the quiet people are the ones to look out for. Back in the dinosaur days when I was in high school, the wildest teenagers were the quiet ones, the preacher's kids, and the Catholic school kids. I loved hanging out with the Catholic school kids because they hosted kick ass keg parties and always had plenty of pure grain on hand if anyone wanted it. I stayed shitfaced every weekend and they went to church every Sunday with a hangover that would kill a horse.

LOL Mammy, Your Quote was right on! Back in the day when we were kids, the quiet, Geeky ones were the ones you had to watch out for. The religeous ones were the hard party kids. I bet anything i t was over bully-ing. I was the quiet one, & you wondered about me too! LOL. I turned out ok? Just a death hag.

[TaupinJohn]

As the nosiest mother in the history of ever, I was going through my son's Facebook last night. And someone whose name I didn't know had made a few comments, so I hopped over to look at his website. I do that with people I don't know; this kid hadn't said anything out of line, I was just curious.

And on his "Wall" he had posted "Omg did u hear about that shooting at a h.s.?" And when someone commented "Where?" He says, "idk." After googling "idk" (idk = I don't know...and I didn't). It was like this:

Ryan: Where?
New Kid: Idk
Summer: It was Ohio
Ryan: How many are dead?
New Kid: Idk i think 4
Summer: 1 dead so far but some in crit.cond.
Ryan: Dude that's badass!
New Kid: {a smiley that looked surprised}
Summer: lol badass srsly?
Ryan: Hells ya!
Summer: lol ur bad Ry
Ryan: u luv me tho
Summer: i know {two kissing smileys}
Ryan: make a list of every1 ur pissed @ then take em all out @ once lol
Summer: lol that wud b a long list!
Ryan: lol i know i'd a need machine gun
Summer: wud b SO AWESOME
Ryan: Thats one way of closing school 4 the day
Summer: lol

My son is 15, in the tenth grade. The other kids were about his age too. What got me is how nonchalantly they took the news. When I was in high school, if someone said there was a mass shooting at another school, it would have been kind of a shock. And it would've scared the hell out of me.

For these kids, though, it was just another Monday. And those were the good kids; at least one thought it was "badass." My God, do we really live in a world where teenagers are no longer affected by a student opening fire?

Idk man. Srsly, idk.

[RaRaRamona]

That boy just looks so average unlike Kip Kinkle who even looked like a nutter in his pictures. I agree that the quiet people are the ones to look out for. Back in the dinosaur days when I was in high school, the wildest teenagers were the quiet ones, the preacher's kids, and the Catholic school kids. I loved hanging out with the Catholic school kids because they hosted kick ass keg parties and always had plenty of pure grain on hand if anyone wanted it. I stayed shitfaced every weekend and they went to church every Sunday with a hangover that would kill a horse.

Pk here!

No real surprises here. Bad home life, quiet kid, dressed goth and was bullied...

http://www.cleveland.com/chardon-sho...ed_of_sho.html

i can't wrap my head around all the people taking up for that stupid kid in the comments.

Disclaimer: it is never okay to open fire on your classmates. That said...
Does anyone else feel like the bullies themselves are at least a little responsible for what happened to them?

Our society does not condone personal responsibility. Everything is someone else's fault. Bad behavior, bad grades, drug addiction, everything.

I guess it's just in the way we all grew up differently. Everyone I knew brought a gun to school. We just all had enough sense to keep them in our vehicles. Most of the girls kept one in their glove boxes (given to them by their daddies for protection, just as mine was) and most of the boys were probably going hunting after school, so they kept one or more in the gun rack behind their seats in their pickup trucks. We all knew we had them, but no one would EVER think of taking them out of their respective resting places, not even to show them around. And we CERTAINLY would never take them inside the building. But then, I'm old. When I was in school, we (not me personally) settled things with our fists, we would never use a gun. Even in the teenage years of high school, we knew when we shot someone, they would stay dead.

My school was the same way. Most of the guys has gun racks in their trucks.




It's my opinion that in this day of attachment parenting, which leads to helicopter parenting, which leads to kids not knowing how to deal with their emotions...we'll just keep seeing this happen until society as a whole wakes up & realizes we need to let our kids get hurt & learn to heal, they need to be held responsible for their actions, & how about we all get a little more God in our hearts?

[Rosebud666]

Sinners fall short everyday...

That's an everlasting thought gobstopper with so many different flavors of wrong that I don't even know which one to taste first, so I won't.

Sorry, but I find it very difficult to smile about this.

I don't think Jesus would shoot first and ask questions later.

Peter might have at one time, because that was the way he rolled back in his ear-cutting days.

[Town Without Pity]

That is very scary, I think I would go to the school....there is always that kid that has it in mind then finds a innocent kid and makes them killer IMO....chances are they are not really going to do something but I'd rather have them on the radar then left alone to think it would be a good idea. Kip Kinkle is the same age as my son. 30 years this year...Living near where Kip Kinkle lived This was a horror story for our state and schools. I recall my Son asking what was going on and when I told him he said why would anyone want to do that...I shook my head and said I don't know, My son replied That's more than being sick.
snark to the max

[racingfan]

Columbine High School principal reflects on 1999 shootings there
http://www.cleveland.com/brett/blog/..._principa.html

This really floored me yesterday...a FB friend posted that he was sick of everyone calling this shooting a "tragedy". It was t as big as VA Tech or Columbine -- those were real tragedies -- but not this one, where "only" three students died. Really? We're not supposed to define this one a "tragedy" because the body count was smaller? Tell that to these kids' families and the traumatized students who saw their peers get blown away. This guy is kinda weird to begin with, but what really amazed me was 5 people "liked" his post. Scary how callous society is getting. To me, this is still three too many...

[radiojane]

As the nosiest mother in the history of ever, I was going through my son's Facebook last night. And someone whose name I didn't know had made a few comments, so I hopped over to look at his website. I do that with people I don't know; this kid hadn't said anything out of line, I was just curious.

And on his "Wall" he had posted "Omg did u hear about that shooting at a h.s.?" And when someone commented "Where?" He says, "idk." After googling "idk" (idk = I don't know...and I didn't). It was like this:

Ryan: Where?
New Kid: Idk
Summer: It was Ohio
Ryan: How many are dead?
New Kid: Idk i think 4
Summer: 1 dead so far but some in crit.cond.
Ryan: Dude that's badass!
New Kid: {a smiley that looked surprised}
Summer: lol badass srsly?
Ryan: Hells ya!
Summer: lol ur bad Ry
Ryan: u luv me tho
Summer: i know {two kissing smileys}
Ryan: make a list of every1 ur pissed @ then take em all out @ once lol
Summer: lol that wud b a long list!
Ryan: lol i know i'd a need machine gun
Summer: wud b SO AWESOME
Ryan: Thats one way of closing school 4 the day
Summer: lol

My son is 15, in the tenth grade. The other kids were about his age too. What got me is how nonchalantly they took the news. When I was in high school, if someone said there was a mass shooting at another school, it would have been kind of a shock. And it would've scared the hell out of me.

For these kids, though, it was just another Monday. And those were the good kids; at least one thought it was "badass." My God, do we really live in a world where teenagers are no longer affected by a student opening fire?

Idk man. Srsly, idk.

Part of that is just the teenage "thing". If it doesn't immediately affect their tiny little universe, it really means nothing. There aren't a lot of 15 year olds with social consciences. I know that a lot of the younger kids had a real who cares attitude about 9/11 and Columbine and the like when I was in school. They grew up to be much more sensitive adults. And it's hard to fault the kids, because a) they're wired that way and b) nowadays parents really encourage the "it's all about you" attitude.

Columbine High School principal reflects on 1999 shootings there
http://www.cleveland.com/brett/blog/..._principa.html

This really floored me yesterday...a FB friend posted that he was sick of everyone calling this shooting a "tragedy". It was t as big as VA Tech or Columbine -- those were real tragedies -- but not this one, where "only" three students died. Really? We're not supposed to define this one a "tragedy" because the body count was smaller? Tell that to these kids' families and the traumatized students who saw their peers get blown away. This guy is kinda weird to begin with, but what really amazed me was 5 people "liked" his post. Scary how callous society is getting. To me, this is still three too many...

This is the number one reason why I hate social media. It lends permanence and provides an audience for idiocy such as this. People really think that someone needs to protest everything. It's a tragedy. It would have been a tragedy if no one died, simply because its tragic that a kid got pushed to the point of bringing a gun to solve the problems he has.

[SheBoss]

It's my opinion that in this day of attachment parenting, which leads to helicopter parenting, which leads to kids not knowing how to deal with their emotions...we'll just keep seeing this happen until society as a whole wakes up & realizes we need to let our kids get hurt & learn to heal, they need to be held responsible for their actions, & how about we all get a little more God in our hearts?

This ^^^^^ is the post of the year!

[SheBoss]

That's an everlasting thought gobstopper with so many different flavors of wrong that I don't even know which one to taste first, so I won't.

Sorry, but I find it very difficult to smile about this.

I don't think Jesus would shoot first and ask questions later.

Peter might have at one time, because that was the way he rolled back in his ear-cutting days.

Jesus wasn't a sinner. Peter was. Makes sense to me.

[SheBoss]

Columbine High School principal reflects on 1999 shootings there
http://www.cleveland.com/brett/blog/..._principa.html

This really floored me yesterday...a FB friend posted that he was sick of everyone calling this shooting a "tragedy". It was t as big as VA Tech or Columbine -- those were real tragedies -- but not this one, where "only" three students died. Really? We're not supposed to define this one a "tragedy" because the body count was smaller? Tell that to these kids' families and the traumatized students who saw their peers get blown away. This guy is kinda weird to begin with, but what really amazed me was 5 people "liked" his post. Scary how callous society is getting. To me, this is still three too many...

Seriously? Has this guy gone off his meds or what? How high does the body count need to be to constitute a tragedy? I think I need to Wiki that question. Maybe it can tell me. The level of some stupid people amazes me.

[racingfan]

Seriously? Has this guy gone off his meds or what? How high does the body count need to be to constitute a tragedy? I think I need to Wiki that question. Maybe it can tell me. The level of some stupid people amazes me.

And that five people felt compelled to press the "like" button on this post is insane. These people are, I believe, mostly in their 20s, but shouldn't we be a little more empathetic by that age? Then again, they say "30 is the new 20"...

[Rosebud666]

Jesus wasn't a sinner. Peter was. Makes sense to me.

Yes but I seem to remember something about Peter being told to put away his sword and Jesus undoing everything Peter accomplished with it.

OK, I give up. I have seen the error of my ways.

Jesus needs more guns, because nothing says "discipleship" and "imitation of Christ" like packing heat. Please sign me up for the local chapter of Campus Posse for Jesus.

I swear, there are days when I think our beloved USA should change its initials to GGG - Guns, Gas and God.

[kmgt]

Another 98 grad here. A couple things running through my head.

1) RE: kids now and social media/cell phones etc. My husband was just in Verizon this past weekend getting a new phone and they told him that the average age of a child getting a cell phone today is 8, 8!!! I couldn't believe it.

2) the Defense attorney said the shootings were random, not targeted, and that TJ is "not well". IMO - they were targeted. Why choose one table then? And why choose the one table of students who ride the bus with you to the Vocational School every morning. And it's also my opinion that the DA is setting up an insanity plea. With the random talk and the not well talk.

[Djen]

I personally think cellphones and Facebook have contributed to making high school worse than it has EVER been. I am so grateful I was out the door long before we had technology more advanced than ICQ.

I remember ICQ! I was already a mom when in came out, though.

I can't tell you the number of times I've seen younger family members say stupid things on FB, and I just thank my lucky stars we didn't have that when I was a kid. It was pretty exciting in my day if a kid had anything nicer than a 110 camera, and you wouldn't take questionable photos because A) you had to pay to get them developed and 2) the guy at the photo developer might see it and, I don't know, tell your mom?

Life is a lot harder for these kids than it was for us, I think.

[radiojane]

Oh don't get me started on pictures! I can't believe the amount of teen porn due to cell phone pictures. These girls send their 13 year old tatas to a kid that's all balls and no brains and then have a nervous breakdown when the whole school sees it! Honey what did you expect?

[SheBoss]

Yes but I seem to remember something about Peter being told to put away his sword and Jesus undoing everything Peter accomplished with it.

OK, I give up. I have seen the error of my ways.

Jesus needs more guns, because nothing says "discipleship" and "imitation of Christ" like packing heat. Please sign me up for the local chapter of Campus Posse for Jesus.

I swear, there are days when I think our beloved USA should change its initials to GGG - Guns, Gas and God.

LOL! Have you ever won an argument with a woman? Just asking...

[SheBoss]

Another 98 grad here. A couple things running through my head.

1) RE: kids now and social media/cell phones etc. My husband was just in Verizon this past weekend getting a new phone and they told him that the average age of a child getting a cell phone today is 8, 8!!! I couldn't believe it.

2) the Defense attorney said the shootings were random, not targeted, and that TJ is "not well". IMO - they were targeted. Why choose one table then? And why choose the one table of students who ride the bus with you to the Vocational School every morning. And it's also my opinion that the DA is setting up an insanity plea. With the random talk and the not well talk.

I was at a friend's house the other day and she told me that her 2 YEAR OLD's teacher - maybe preschool or nursery or something - told her about phone apps she could get to put on her phone OR THE CHILD'S PHONE to learn ABC's and such. What?? Really?? This is getting out of hand.

Yep, I'm seeing an insanity defense, too. Random means crazy, targeted mean sane and pissed. I think all we'll hear is how the kid is "not well".