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Thread: Marina Habe - Manson or Zodiac?

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    Marina Habe - Manson or Zodiac?

    Since someone mentioned her on the more Manson murders thread, I thought I'd get away with feeding my obsession.

    Truth is, no one ever found out whether it was Manson or the Zodiac. My money's on Manson. It sounds more like a Manson crime, getting as close to the house as possible, getting someone else involved, a guy, and the act of being visible. The Zodiac seems to me more of a sneak-around kind of guy,Manson wanted to be visible, more than that, he wanted his acts to be highly visible. There might of course have been a third party involved.

    The only decent links I could find, are these:

    http://www.charliemanson.com/news-ar...1969-01-02.htm
    http://www.charliemanson.com/habe.htm
    http://members.tripod.com/mayhem44/mansonbio.html

    There was one I had before my computer crashed which was written by her step-brother, Michael Hendricks or Hendrix (not sure about the spelling now), which was pretty interesting and yielded a lot of information though he seemed to be very keen to disspell any ties she may have had to the Manson family. My personal take on this is, she was probably there one time, the way people visited there a lot and she somehow knew one of them because he decided to befriend her for whatever his reasons were (and I'm sure he had some). I don't think she was a follower but my understanding is that people were interested in communes the same way today we'll go to squats and check them out (well, some of us more than others but you get my point).

    Manson's crimes all seem to be related to some "issue" he has, racial hatred, hatred of cops, etc. He may have felt that being the daughter of an actress and a writer, she'd grown up privileged. But an interesting fact is, her father was one of the soldiers who liberated Dachau and he was Jewish. Not sure it fits but if you look at the article in the third link, one of the early victims before Marina was a cop's wife and a pregnant woman. Also a grandmother. What if Charlie was working his way through the people he felt abandoned him, his parents, etc. Not trying to downplay his crimes at all as they make me shiver and sick and sometimes, when I think too much about it and get too engrossed in it, I literally can't sleep at night. Just trying to understand. And of course, feed my obsession.

    Curious to know what you all think.

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    I'm gonna go with Manson. Zodiac would have included it in his communications, don't you think?

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    Absolutely, I forgot to add that one. Manson always makes me think of this "quiet statement" in that you knew it was him but he wasn't going to send the cops letters saying I did it.

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    The fact that no one was ever charged with Habe's murder makes me think they filed it under the Manson heading and did no further investigation since the killers were in jail already. So many were murder victims by the Manson family that not all were prosecuted. The Family were even trying to kill each other off. If you count murders and attempted murders by the Family the number gets quite large. More than the law could handle. It was like a war.

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    Thought this might be of interest. I love it.

    http://www.thezodiacmansonconnection...psy_files.html


    "I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."

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    Charlie wasn't responsible for every murder at that time in LA being unsolved seems enough to tie it to the family. People were murdered before and after Manson I think this is unrelated beyond time frame.

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    New theory, links to Marina Habe and Process Church. Will have to go hunt around for the link. Some weird and twisted possibly drug-related human sacrifice? The way I see it, people pretty much knew each other or the rules of six degrees of separation applied sufficiently for people to feed off each other so that you might hear of some new experimentation going on somewhere and decide to copy or add your own. And don't forget, she was quite well connected via her father's status and the fact that her mother was an actress and at one point even dated John Houston. So it would have been easy to know her. What I'm saying is that while she did know Tex Watson, the killer might have very well known her from somewhere else, another cult maybe or a mob hit executed as revenge. Just putting theories out there. Just putting theories out there, guess what makes this so intriguing was that she was so well-connected and yet there were never any scandals around her or else it was very well hushed up.

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    Canīt really see the connection to Manson from the posted links... why was her murder connected to the Family? Did she have anything to do with them? Iīm not saying that i doubt that she could be a victim of them.. just fail to see the connection...

    "The way I see it, people pretty much knew each other or the rules of six degrees of separation applied sufficiently for people to feed off each other so that you might hear of some new experimentation going on somewhere and decide to copy or add your own."

    Didnīt understand this... what is "six degrees of seperation"? Never heard the expression before?

    Interesting thread by the way

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    I don't really know if Marina was one of Charlies victims. He isn't responsible for every unsolved murder in Cali at that time. It could be one of Charlie's victims as he has said there are many dead bodies out there that will never be found or solved. Who knows, I just won't put money on it. I really don't think she was a Zodiac victim, he liked to brag to the press and police about his crimes, so I don't think he did it. There were an awful lot of cults and Satanic cults in LA at that time, she could have been a victim of one of them and their rituals. I don't think we will ever know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessa View Post
    I'm gonna go with Manson. Zodiac would have included it in his communications, don't you think?
    hey, half the crap the zodiac wrote is still undecipherable so he may just have written about it...we just gotta figure it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnneBoleyn View Post
    Canīt really see the connection to Manson from the posted links... why was her murder connected to the Family? Did she have anything to do with them? Iīm not saying that i doubt that she could be a victim of them.. just fail to see the connection...

    "The way I see it, people pretty much knew each other or the rules of six degrees of separation applied sufficiently for people to feed off each other so that you might hear of some new experimentation going on somewhere and decide to copy or add your own."

    Didnīt understand this... what is "six degrees of seperation"? Never heard the expression before?

    Interesting thread by the way
    There was an article on the Manson site in which it said that she had met Watson in Hawaii or at least knew him in L.A. She'd been up on Spahn and Manson made advances but she refused him (don't think that was enough for him to have her killed), her stepbrother later refuted that claim in an article, I'm pretty sure it was also on the Manson site. Here's another one I found:

    http://www.charliemanson.com/news-ar...1969-01-02.htm

    http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/200...1_archive.html

    http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/200...1_archive.html

    And then there are random mentions of her as an aside:
    http://youre-guilty-until-proven-inn...e-of-tate.html

    Some personal background on her, in a way:
    http://community.livejournal.com/ohn.../21571501.html

    Six degrees of separation is the theory that we are all separated by six degrees from anyone else in the world. There's a real technical entry on wiki

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation

    What I meant was that people seemed to interact a lot more with each other then, so that in the end it's not strange for Marina to have known someone associated with the Manson clan, since everyone basically knew each other. What I can see is this, she meets Watson, he, or another friend / acquaintance invites her up to Spahn, there they meet Charlie or maybe a friend takes her there and they meet Tex. There might be someone there who also dabbles in Satanism, just dropping by, sees her, decides she might be a good victim for a virgin sacrifice and then decide to take her (once again, I'm writing when I shouldn't been and haven't had any sleep yet, if this makes no sense, I'll try again tomorrow). Hope that clears it up. If not, like I said, repost when I can think more clearly

    But the thing that struck me, if she was abducted around 3.30 in the morning, and the coroner's report says she's been dead since Monday morning, they must have killed her in the early morning hours. When did the sun rise in the winter in California? Maybe it was some ritual before the dawn.

    Also, what about that boyfriend of hers? Not saying he did anything but a 17-year-old driving home by herself at that hour? Maybe they had a fight. Pretty permissive parents though (yeah, I know, it was the 60s and all, okay, I'll shut up now )

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    here's an image of MARINA HABE
    Attached Images Attached Images
    KELT' HOME FOR WAYWARD YOUTH-
    Helping Young Men To Turn Around For Over Twenty Years !

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    I have seen some pretty sick death photos, can't remember where though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrnorrischangestrains View Post
    There was an article on the Manson site in which it said that she had met Watson in Hawaii or at least knew him in L.A. She'd been up on Spahn and Manson made advances but she refused him (don't think that was enough for him to have her killed), her stepbrother later refuted that claim in an article, I'm pretty sure it was also on the Manson site. Here's another one I found:

    http://www.charliemanson.com/news-ar...1969-01-02.htm

    http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/200...1_archive.html

    http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/200...1_archive.html

    And then there are random mentions of her as an aside:
    http://youre-guilty-until-proven-inn...e-of-tate.html

    Some personal background on her, in a way:
    http://community.livejournal.com/ohn.../21571501.html

    Six degrees of separation is the theory that we are all separated by six degrees from anyone else in the world. There's a real technical entry on wiki

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation

    What I meant was that people seemed to interact a lot more with each other then, so that in the end it's not strange for Marina to have known someone associated with the Manson clan, since everyone basically knew each other. What I can see is this, she meets Watson, he, or another friend / acquaintance invites her up to Spahn, there they meet Charlie or maybe a friend takes her there and they meet Tex. There might be someone there who also dabbles in Satanism, just dropping by, sees her, decides she might be a good victim for a virgin sacrifice and then decide to take her (once again, I'm writing when I shouldn't been and haven't had any sleep yet, if this makes no sense, I'll try again tomorrow). Hope that clears it up. If not, like I said, repost when I can think more clearly

    But the thing that struck me, if she was abducted around 3.30 in the morning, and the coroner's report says she's been dead since Monday morning, they must have killed her in the early morning hours. When did the sun rise in the winter in California? Maybe it was some ritual before the dawn.

    Also, what about that boyfriend of hers? Not saying he did anything but a 17-year-old driving home by herself at that hour? Maybe they had a fight. Pretty permissive parents though (yeah, I know, it was the 60s and all, okay, I'll shut up now )

    Impressive...

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    I thought they didn't persue charges on Habe because the killer was already in jail. The killer was assumed to be one of the Family members(male) sentenced to life in prison.

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    Bruce Davis is the one in question...

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    I always wondered about this poor girl. Hitchhiking was the way to go if you didn't have a car and Charlie picked them up. That's how he recruited alot of his girls. And I wonder if he killed any of the ones he picked up, or if Brad Davis did. Also, there's a book Ultimate Evil by Maury Terry that says Manson was a part of The Process. IDK. The book is kind of off the wall and pretty spooky. At any rate, this was not the Zodiac's MO.
    Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them--Matthew 7:12




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    Quote Originally Posted by mrnorrischangestrains View Post
    There was an article on the Manson site in which it said that she had met Watson in Hawaii or at least knew him in L.A. She'd been up on Spahn and Manson made advances but she refused him (don't think that was enough for him to have her killed), her stepbrother later refuted that claim in an article, I'm pretty sure it was also on the Manson site. Here's another one I found:

    http://www.charliemanson.com/news-ar...1969-01-02.htm

    http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/200...1_archive.html

    http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/200...1_archive.html

    And then there are random mentions of her as an aside:
    http://youre-guilty-until-proven-inn...e-of-tate.html

    Some personal background on her, in a way:
    http://community.livejournal.com/ohn.../21571501.html

    Six degrees of separation is the theory that we are all separated by six degrees from anyone else in the world. There's a real technical entry on wiki

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation

    What I meant was that people seemed to interact a lot more with each other then, so that in the end it's not strange for Marina to have known someone associated with the Manson clan, since everyone basically knew each other. What I can see is this, she meets Watson, he, or another friend / acquaintance invites her up to Spahn, there they meet Charlie or maybe a friend takes her there and they meet Tex. There might be someone there who also dabbles in Satanism, just dropping by, sees her, decides she might be a good victim for a virgin sacrifice and then decide to take her (once again, I'm writing when I shouldn't been and haven't had any sleep yet, if this makes no sense, I'll try again tomorrow). Hope that clears it up. If not, like I said, repost when I can think more clearly

    But the thing that struck me, if she was abducted around 3.30 in the morning, and the coroner's report says she's been dead since Monday morning, they must have killed her in the early morning hours. When did the sun rise in the winter in California? Maybe it was some ritual before the dawn.

    Also, what about that boyfriend of hers? Not saying he did anything but a 17-year-old driving home by herself at that hour? Maybe they had a fight. Pretty permissive parents though (yeah, I know, it was the 60s and all, okay, I'll shut up now )
    Thanks for clearing it up for me Guess I was too tired as well, when I read this.. i totally missed that part about Marina on the Manson Site. But now i understand... still not convinced he had anything to do with it though... but I think Iīll read more about the subject.. It sounds very intriguing

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    Quote Originally Posted by WendyK View Post
    Impressive...
    just a victim of obsession

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnneBoleyn View Post
    Thanks for clearing it up for me Guess I was too tired as well, when I read this.. i totally missed that part about Marina on the Manson Site. But now i understand... still not convinced he had anything to do with it though... but I think Iīll read more about the subject.. It sounds very intriguing
    It is, isn't it? But I'm glad you said that since sometimes even my own obsession scares me. The stuff on her is so random, you really have to go through the sites with a fine tooth comb and even then it's usually just, Marina Habe, suspected Manson victim.

    My money's actually on a Satanist cult at the moment but somehow tied to Manson (even if it only means that they used the Spahn grounds for her sacrifice or someone in the cult knew Manson or someone from the Family). I'll read up more on The Process. Anyone know where in the hills L.A. they were based?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrnorrischangestrains View Post
    It is, isn't it? But I'm glad you said that since sometimes even my own obsession scares me. The stuff on her is so random, you really have to go through the sites with a fine tooth comb and even then it's usually just, Marina Habe, suspected Manson victim.

    My money's actually on a Satanist cult at the moment but somehow tied to Manson (even if it only means that they used the Spahn grounds for her sacrifice or someone in the cult knew Manson or someone from the Family). I'll read up more on The Process. Anyone know where in the hills L.A. they were based?
    Hi there,
    I'm sure you've read The Family - good book on the inner workings on the Manson family. I found in that book there was a lot written about the different Satanic cults in the area at that time and what they were doing. Yes the family and Charlie did have contact with some of these cults. I think you may find what you are looking for in that book (as far as info on the Satanic cults)

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    Quote Originally Posted by beatlebaby4 View Post
    Hi there,
    I'm sure you've read The Family - good book on the inner workings on the Manson family. I found in that book there was a lot written about the different Satanic cults in the area at that time and what they were doing. Yes the family and Charlie did have contact with some of these cults. I think you may find what you are looking for in that book (as far as info on the Satanic cults)
    I have read The Family twice and I think it was in this book that the author said it was extremely dangerous to be out by yourself in those remote places, especially at night, because of the satanic cults and human sacrifice.
    Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them--Matthew 7:12




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    you know, so much info on this whole thing is coming up from my subconscious, it's hard to tell what I read and heard about, I used to eavesdrop a lot as a child (and I mean a lot). Fact is, this case has been in life for as long as I remember. Will have to read The Family again, providing I read it before.

    How's this for a scenario. Tex Watson knew Marina, they hang out because why shouldn't they and everyone else did. Either he or someone on Spahn (maybe even Charlie) sees Marina, talks to her realizes she'd be perfect for a human sacrifice and passes on the information to someone in one of those cults for whatever reason. Just a guess. What happened to those cults? I mean are they still around? Some of their followers maybe. And stupid question, what's the law's position on being in a Satanic cult?

    Curious in Helsinki

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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    I have read The Family twice and I think it was in this book that the author said it was extremely dangerous to be out by yourself in those remote places, especially at night, because of the satanic cults and human sacrifice.
    Exactly

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    wonder if she had a fight with her boyfriend that night and decided to go home, that maybe she wasn't supposed to be driving home that night. Does anyone know anything about him? I found a John Hornburg (sp?) listed as a producer once but not sure it was him and there was only that one movie. Something tells me he might have been killed and / or committed suicide. Having said that he's probably happily married (or divorced) with grandkids.

    On another note, is there anyone who managed to find out where she was buried (I won't be greedy and ask for pictures here, I won't). Tried all the usual sites but nothing happening.

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    Charlie would never have killed someone this well known and NOT had something to say about it or even leave some kind of message and it sure isn't the Zodiacs MO. They had another whack job lose in LA and he was doing his thing or maybe a boyfriend was involved..

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    Here's something I dug up on Process. It mentions Bruce Davis. Looks like these people were really looking for some sort of guidance.

    http://www.charliemanson.com/process-2.htm

    Still doesn't sound like Process to me. The knives don't match, her heart was still in her body. And why would they dump her body by the road? I mean, it may not have been the most frequented road back then but still it wasn't a forest grove or anything secluded like that. I'm gonna look into more cults in that area.

    So maybe the boyfriend followed her home or had someone follow her (seems a bit far fetched to me though) but maybe he hitched a ride there.

    Also, how did that car turn up in her driveway? Was it there the whole time? Don't think so or her mother would have heard it before (she said she heard a car and saw her daughter being pushed inside. Actually, she just saw a car, right? So Marina could have ducked behind the bushes and tried to run away and then someone else or they caught her). Okay, my imagination is getting the better of me here. It's jsut so damn intriguing.

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    Was Lynette Fromme involved in any Satanist cults? Without reading too much into this, if memory serves, Marina went to University High (is that the same as Los Angeles high school? ), which is also where Lynette Fromme went. A lot of famous people went there, chances were they didn't know each other, just thought I'd share.

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    Marina Habe, high school friend

    Marina and I shared a math class at University Hi in West L.A. where we became friends. She was one of the most beautiful girls I have ever seen with big luminescent eyes. She was an incredible person, super kind and friendly. Her boyfriend was a tall blond guy w ho was usually barefoot and wore a sarepe. Don't know if he was a student. What a loss, and I hope the mystery is solved. You know, even after over 40 years I'm hesitant to talk about this case. Manson and maybe a whole new group of followers are still alive

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    Quote Originally Posted by rippeyjim View Post
    Marina and I shared a math class at University Hi in West L.A. where we became friends. She was one of the most beautiful girls I have ever seen with big luminescent eyes. She was an incredible person, super kind and friendly. Her boyfriend was a tall blond guy w ho was usually barefoot and wore a sarepe. Don't know if he was a student. What a loss, and I hope the mystery is solved. You know, even after over 40 years I'm hesitant to talk about this case. Manson and maybe a whole new group of followers are still alive
    Please do a search before starting a new thread.
    Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them--Matthew 7:12




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    Quote Originally Posted by rippeyjim View Post
    Marina and I shared a math class at University Hi in West L.A. where we became friends. She was one of the most beautiful girls I have ever seen with big luminescent eyes. She was an incredible person, super kind and friendly. Her boyfriend was a tall blond guy w ho was usually barefoot and wore a sarepe. Don't know if he was a student. What a loss, and I hope the mystery is solved. You know, even after over 40 years I'm hesitant to talk about this case. Manson and maybe a whole new group of followers are still alive
    Thank you so much for that information! I think these little snippets of information make it all seem more real, if that makes sense. The Manson follower thing is pretty scary, even today. Maybe there is hope and it can be solved somehow. Maybe slightly more "unconventional" methods would help. Btw, at your school's prom in 1968, do you remember if they played any Nancy Sinatra songs? I'm thinking of one in particular.

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