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Thread: Shooting at Connecticut elementary school

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by stay_zee View Post
    Lets not make this thread about gun control. Lets make this thread about the crime and the victims. If you feel and overwhelming urge to make a statement about gun control for or against - you can always start a separate thread about it.

    Miho, when you said you were responding, I thought you were kidding because you have that machine gun kitty avatar. lol Bless you for being there to help those poor families.
    It made me tear up when I heard about this travesty. My grand daughter is only 7 and I can't imagine losing her.

    Bless all the families and people affected.
    Since gun control has been brought up in articles about this tragedy, it is permitted on this thread. Let's refrain from telling other members what they can and can't post, please.
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  2. #202
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    When you throw Nancy Lanza into pipl it gives her as related to Ryan and some other guy (ex?) But no Adam. when you put Adam in, you get nothing at all.
    Weird.
    ETA: yah, pipl isn't perfect but still.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by stay_zee View Post
    Lets not make this thread about gun control. Lets make this thread about the crime and the victims. If you feel and overwhelming urge to make a statement about gun control for or against - you can always start a separate thread about it.

    Miho, when you said you were responding, I thought you were kidding because you have that machine gun kitty avatar. lol Bless you for being there to help those poor families.
    It made me tear up when I heard about this travesty. My grand daughter is only 7 and I can't imagine losing her.

    Bless all the families and people affected.
    I can't tell people what they should or should not post, but I would prefer the gun control issue be left out and argued in another thread. All I can do is just ignore the post's of those that wish to make those arguments...

    I am still in shock about these poor innocent babies being gunned down. I think about the insurmountable grief the parents are going through, not to mention the families of the slain adults. I don't understand why this is suddenly becoming epidemic, why there would be a human walking around that doesn't care what horror he would inflict on those precious children and adult lives and their families. The man that stabbed 22 children in China today. I just don't get it. I don't think any of us do.

    And maybe we're not supposed to. We don't have that rage inside of us. We have compassion and empathy for others, we treasure our family and friends, as well as life itself. We wouldn't dream of bringing any grief, sorrow or shame to them. And it's all due to the fact that we are simply "normal".
    Last edited by Dangitbawb; 12-14-2012 at 08:07 PM.
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  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangitbawb View Post
    AMEN! Too many strong opinions on both sides...

    I am still in shock about these poor innocent babies being gunned down. I think about the insurmountable grief the parents are going through, not to mention the families of the slain adults. I don't understand why this is suddenly becoming epidemic, why there would be a human walking around that doesn't care what horror he would inflict on those precious children and adult lives and their families. The man that stabbed 22 children in China today. I just don't get it. I don't think any of us do.

    And maybe we're not supposed to. We don't have that rage inside of us. We have compassion and empathy for others, we treasure our family and friends, as well as life itself. We wouldn't dream of bringing any grief, sorrow or shame to them. And it's all due to the fact that we are simply "normal".
    Strong opinions on both sides make for good debate, as long as no rules are broken. However, it is against policy to tell other members what they can or can't post.
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  5. #205
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    Hi, Pauli --

    One of the few times I agree with you 100%

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    I think history has shown us you can never 100% stop the risk of something like this happening. You can reduce it, but never stop it. Not unless you are willing to trade 100% of your freedom for the illusion of 100% security.
    And for the "no guns" crowd, that won't work either. Timothy McVeigh killed 150+ with fertilizer and Islamic extremists killed 3000 with box cutters and motivation.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    Not such a good idea to have guns in the house when you have a loony-bits son. And there are some indications that he was.
    Right! It appears that the shooter had personality problems. Scary when they can't cope and snap.
    Something had to have set him off to take all these lives and his own life.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by JefeStone View Post
    I don't want a armed person teaching my kids and the guy had a assault rifle, if the teacher were armed it would not have mattered.
    Certainly not trying to argue against your opinion. But I can pop the center of a bottle cap at 60' with a 22 revolver and I'm blind in one eye . In fact I know several people that can do it with about 3 second aim. It's a very strong argument that a teacher with a gun prevented multiple deaths in the Pearl high school shooting with Luke Woodham.
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  8. #208
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    Crisis management is apart of my job and this tragedy hits very close to home. I have stood in shock as this developed and I have cried. I am trained in this and I don't know where you would begin to deal with this tragedy. I just don't know where I would start.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyt View Post
    maybe there should be more security type people/things at schools. This goes back to what I said at another shooting post, I would say get more security, more perhaps metal dectectors, .... more anything that has to do with higher security & not just at schools but movie theatres, shopping centers... anywhere. I don't know what else to think of as far as security being in place.

    To the people who is against that idea, you suggest something better??????

    I was torn up by the Oregon shooting and was crying so hard when hubby was home at lunch. Today he called me to the computer room and told me that there was a school shooting in a kindergarten class and all 20 kids were killed. I broke down screaming crying as I have a 5 year old. At my daughter's school, the director told me that two parents came to pick up their kids early, before a Christmas party this afternoon. What is this world coming to? Needless to say, I kept the TV off today.

    I taught a one time class at an intermediate HS and before I could get in I had to submit my driver's license to be run for a state background check, go through metal detectors, and escorted through locked doors to the classroom. I thought at the time it was overkill, but now I"m rethinking that. Maybe this will become the landscape for all schools, malls, etc in the future.

    My prayers are with everyone involved in this tragedy. My heart wrenches for the parents who have lost children and have to go home to see kids' Christmas presents.


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  10. #210
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    Still can't get my head around what happened today. Prayers go out to all involved.

  11. #211
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    You can't plan for crazy. You can try and occasionally you are successful. But then sometimes no matter what procedures you put in place, someone will override them.

  12. #212
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    yeah, I don't think we'll ever be able to wrap our minds around this one. There's no medical, or mental reason's or he was bullied excuse that would ever come close to explaining why this waste of human flesh walked in that school and killed innocent children. I hope he's burning in hell fire.

    I have no problem with teachers being armed in school, just as long as they are trained, and are in sound mind I say arm them. I'm yet to hear of a teacher going to school and killing students.
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  13. #213
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    I really have nothing to add that hasn't already been covered, but I can't escape the horror. My oldest grandson is in kindergarten. Children that age are so much fun. He loves school, enjoys his teachers and his little friends, loves making adorable little things for Mammy and Pepaw to hang on the refrigerator, loves the cafeteria food at his school, gets so excited when they take little trips to a pumpkin patch a few weeks ago and the zoo, and loves to learn new things to come home and teach his three year old brother. Thanks to what he has been taught in school, he is obsessed with Abraham Lincoln and has also got his little brother interested in him. It's amazing to hear two little boys talk about such a subject and know so many facts. They had a choice a couple of months ago whether to go for a train ride or go to Lincoln's birthplace, and they both chose Lincoln's birthplace hands down. Of course, they are giddy and excited over Christmas and getting impatient, just as I'm sure all of those innocent little babies were who were so horribly massacred for no reason by a worthless sack of skin. I'm sorry for rambling, but I just can't even let my mind go to something like that happening to my grandbabies.

  14. #214
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    I hear ya Mammy. Between 3 and 7 is my favorite age group (dont tell my son, he never knew I had a favorite) They are SO sweet and innocent. Very creative, verbal with their thoughts, and coordinated with their motion. The only down side is they are germ vectors but hey, hygiene gets taught . Anyway, just the sweetest age and tragic that they were murdered by an evil coward. I cant imagine the grief of the families.
    I told my lawyer he's better step it up or we would both end up on an episode of "SNAPPED"

  15. #215
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    Some info on the killer. Nothing earth-shattering, but worth reading...


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20121214/us-connecticut-school-shooting-suspect/?utm_hp_ref=homepage&ir=homepage

  16. #216
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    As a Mommy to a 4 year old and a cousin to one of the almost victims, all I can say is I am so thankful my cousin made it out alive and that my son is lying in bed net to me snoring. As a person with a bachelor's in psychology who is working on a master's I know that these kids that survived, my cousin included, are going to need a lot of love, support and help. Some may never get over it, others may use it as an excuse when picking their future job and still others may block it out entirely and have physical manifestations develop. My counseling professor is going to talk to someone out there and see if there is any way our class can help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aviatrix View Post

    My prayers are with everyone involved in this tragedy. My heart wrenches for the parents who have lost children and have to go home to see kids' Christmas presents.

    i was thinking about this all day...not only having to deal with this, but having to go home and seeing everything associated with their loss...heartbreaking. i live about 30 min away from where it happened, and i have a 5yr old in kindergarten, so it hits way too close to home. i find it disgusting that i have to explain to this sweet child to run and hide and make herself into a ball in case something bad ever happened at her school.

  18. #218
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    image.jpgHere is a screenshot of HuffPost main page right now. I would say poor placement of the third story down, on the right, don't you think??

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    Yet another "Goth." My ex husband became "goth" at age 30. He was one weird dude. It seems there's a pattern with these school shootings and those who belong to this little group of misfits. Also, I'm trying to wrap my head around the reasoning behind a woman having so many weapons, especially an assault rifle. They're all registered in his mom's name. I honestly think we'll hear that this was quite an odd family, and that this mother was sheltering her disordered son. My aunt does the same thing with her sociopathic, drug-addicted 45 year old son. He lives with her, and she thinks he does no wrong.....

    I guess only time will tell what kind of background this guy really had, and why people wouldn't/couldn't pick up on his behavioral problems. His own brother hadn't talked to him since 2010, yet he was carrying HIS ID? Odd....

  20. #220
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    I head about what happened in China too but not the details. I'll have to read that article.
    I just don't understand if this guy had a beef with his mother then why go shoot up a school full of kids? I haven't read anything since earlier today so I don't know if they have an idea of why he did it. I've stayed away from the tv because while I hate what happened and it is a horrible tragedy I don't want it rammed down my throat all day. I hate the media. I'm also sick of all the religious posts clogging up my FB feed. I don't understand what praying will accomplish.

  21. #221
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    Such a tragedy with echoes of Dunblane. Those poor wee souls never given the chance to have a future.

    My thoughts and prayers to all those affected.

  22. #222
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    I keep tripping over the fact that the mom had all those guns. Not a gun owner here so it seems like a lot to me.

    They were saying on the news that the big gun she had is banned in her state, and unless it was grandfathered in she shouldn't have had it.

    Wild shot in the dark here but could she have bought the guns for him to screw around with. He was too young to get any legally. Just conjecture of course.

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    My heart is breaking for the families of these innocent children and adults who were killed. My thoughts and prayers are with them. I can't help but think of the innocent lives that were wiped out in an instant. I went home and hugged my grandson extra close yesterday. These kiddos had their whole lives ahead of them, and in a moment of madness, they were wiped out.

  24. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by shipmatekate View Post
    I am trying to find a link but another crime forum had posted that he was either Autistic or had Aspergers

    Since I can't find the info I hesitated to mention it.
    I'll keep looking

    Here is a link

    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/connectic...ing-to-report/
    I know the parents of an autistic child who suddenly started becoming VERY VIOLENT towards his mother (and chief caregiver) around age 15. The father found through his own research the psychologist had continued feeding his son a drug that should never be taken after the age of 12. I wonder how many other human time bombs there are whose brains have been fried from over-prescribed antidepressants, Ritalin, etc.?

  25. #225
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    The Mom sounds a bit off to me having those guns in the house with a son who wasn't right. I just wish the bastard had stopped there; kill your mom and plead insanity. I can't imagine what those families are going through it's the definition of unimaginable.

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    I heard the parents of the murdered children are asked to identify their slain child from pics taken in the classroom where the bodies still lay.

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by StudioJoe View Post
    I know the parents of an autistic child who suddenly started becoming VERY VIOLENT towards his mother (and chief caregiver) around age 15. The father found through his own research the psychologist had continued feeding his son a drug that should never be taken after the age of 12. I wonder how many other human time bombs there are whose brains have been fried from over-prescribed antidepressants, Ritalin, etc.?
    I'm just rambling......I have no knowledge that these drugs played any role here but some have been warning us that all these drugs we give our kids will end up causing more problems than they supposedly solve.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    I keep tripping over the fact that the mom had all those guns. Not a gun owner here so it seems like a lot to me.

    They were saying on the news that the big gun she had is banned in her state, and unless it was grandfathered in she shouldn't have had it.

    Wild shot in the dark here but could she have bought the guns for him to screw around with. He was too young to get any legally. Just conjecture of course.
    I am a gun owner, and I do not keep mine here, at my home or property because I have children, and I'm with you on this one, I cannot wrap my mind around an older, upper middle class woman, a kindergarten teacher, needing an assault rifle and the other guns? The only reason one would buy an assault rifle is for killing lots of people, can't use them for hunting. My husband wondered if maybe she wasn't right in the head and was maybe tripping over the 12-21-12 Mayan end times bullshit, and maybe it was a murder-suicide pact type of thing and the kids were a mercy killing in their eyes? I don't know, I think we're all just grasping at straws trying to make sense and figure out why?... whatever reason it is, it will never be good enough, and will never make sense.. Sadly, I don't think we will ever know? I know my Christmas will be a lot sadder this year, as I will no doubt be thinking of all these children, dead and alive, and their families and what they are going through as we all spend time with family, and are opening gifts.
    ​"I wish I could just hug you all, but I'm not gonna."

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  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wendy A. View Post
    I am a gun owner, and I do not keep mine here, at my home or property because I have children, and I'm with you on this one, I cannot wrap my mind around an older, upper middle class woman, a kindergarten teacher, needing an assault rifle and the other guns? The only reason one would buy an assault rifle is for killing lots of people, can't use them for hunting.
    I asked a "why" earlier and never got a reply but I will try here again. Why can't you use what was supposedly owned by this women for hunting?

    It has been reported (I have no idea yet if it's true) that a .223 was one of the guns in his possession. (It has also been noted that it was left in the car)

    http://www.huntingclub.com/magazine/...r#.UMx9Z29ZXIc

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    Quote Originally Posted by john*thomas View Post
    I asked a "why" earlier and never got a reply but I will try here again. Why can't you use what was supposedly owned by this women for hunting?

    It has been reported (I have no idea yet if it's true) that a .223 was one of the guns in his possession. (It has also been noted that it was left in the car)

    http://www.huntingclub.com/magazine/...r#.UMx9Z29ZXIc
    regardless of what your news article may say, the bullets from any of those guns would do too much damage to the meat.. that is why one would hunt? That is why members of my family hunt anyway. (We prefer crossbows) Besides an assault rifle is over the top. It's too much. If you need to take an assault rifle in the woods to hunt, you don't need to be hunting! That rifle TELLS you what it is.. an assault rifle. There is NO REASON for ANYONE other than military and law enforcement to have said gun in their possession. There needs to be better gun laws in the United States. I am saying this as a life time gun owner. I shot my first gun at age 4.. I believe in my rights to "Bear Arms" but I also think that this needs to have limits such as I mentioned above. When our Founding Fathers created the Second Amendment, times where much different, there were no assault rifles. Outlaw them NOW, and start screening people, AND their families before allowing them to own a fire arm. Crack down on all these illegal guns coming in that criminals are getting a hold of as well. There is no excuse why this is not done, it needs to be or many more innocent's will die. There are those who will argue that it's a rare event that such a thing would happen! Guess what? It just did, and 20 innocent little children who were anxiously awaiting Santa Claus are dead because our political system is bought and sold by the NRA and gun makers. There is not enough gun laws in place. One "Rare incident" is more than enough for me, and I'm sure it's enough for everyone here, and the families of the victims, and hell, read the news, it's not so rare that shit like this is happening anymore.
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  31. #231
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    He was too young to buy handguns legally, but not long guns. Why does the number of guns the woman had have you tripping?

    What's the real pressing issue here.....the fact that someone killed a bunch of people, or the way he did it? I don't remember people getting so bent out of shape about fertilizer and diesel fuel after Oklahoma City.

    Guns, even the particularly evil semi automatic ones, have been around for a long time. They're not a new variable. They used to be much easier to get. It's not that mass murder is a new thing either....the worst school massacre ever, the Bath School bombing, dates to 1927, so killing little kids ain't new either ..... but it sure seems to have gotten more prevalent in the past few decades.

    People are free to their opinions of course, but to really think the mere presence of guns is the reason things like this happen is simple-mindedness at best.

    How can this kinda shit be prevented? It can't be entirely. As crazy as it sounds, if the poor principle yesterday had had a shotgun in her office....

    You fight fire with fire. Want a fighting chance against a psychopath with a gun? Better have a gun of your own.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wendy A. View Post
    I am a gun owner, and I do not keep mine here, at my home or property because I have children, and I'm with you on this one, I cannot wrap my mind around an older, upper middle class woman, a kindergarten teacher, needing an assault rifle and the other guns? The only reason one would buy an assault rifle is for killing lots of people, can't use them for hunting. My husband wondered if maybe she wasn't right in the head and was maybe tripping over the 12-21-12 Mayan end times bullshit, and maybe it was a murder-suicide pact type of thing and the kids were a mercy killing in their eyes? I don't know, I think we're all just grasping at straws trying to make sense and figure out why?... whatever reason it is, it will never be good enough, and will never make sense.. Sadly, I don't think we will ever know? I know my Christmas will be a lot sadder this year, as I will no doubt be thinking of all these children, dead and alive, and their families and what they are going through as we all spend time with family, and are opening gifts.
    Wendy , that scenario you have just described is the only one that has made "sense" ,if you can make sense of something so horrendous .The idea that maybe the Mom believed we were all going to die on the 21st Dec and she didn't want her class to suffer .But then I think I read he went into other classes too ?But it would maybe answer the Q of why she had so many powerful guns around if she thought she'd have to defend herself on the 21st ? all conjecture I know.And now we'll never know unless they have something behind to explain.God help those parents who are living this nightmare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lulubaines View Post
    I heard the parents of the murdered children are asked to identify their slain child from pics taken in the classroom where the bodies still lay.
    That sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lulubaines View Post
    I heard the parents of the murdered children are asked to identify their slain child from pics taken in the classroom where the bodies still lay.
    Just heard on TV that they will still have bodies in the school on Monday as the investigation will be very in depth. Dear God you can't even bury your child.......
    "When you help someone up a hill, you get that much closer to the top yourself."
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    Jesus, why can't they just take pictures? I would hate to think of my child just lying there for so long.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoBorn View Post
    Just heard on TV that they will still have bodies in the school on Monday as the investigation will be very in depth. Dear God you can't even bury your child.......
    i don't see how that would be possible...3 days on the floor would make for a very stinky situation.

  37. #237
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    Actually, the .223 is considered by most to be inadequately powerful for deer, though some do successfully use it for such. I don't get why use in hunting seems to be what people see as making a gun 'acceptable' or not. I've got a couple dozen guns, and only about 5 of them are hunting guns.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by mac_lorre View Post
    He was too young to buy handguns legally, but not long guns. Why does the number of guns the woman had have you tripping?

    What's the real pressing issue here.....the fact that someone killed a bunch of people, or the way he did it? I don't remember people getting so bent out of shape about fertilizer and diesel fuel after Oklahoma City.

    Guns, even the particularly evil semi automatic ones, have been around for a long time. They're not a new variable. They used to be much easier to get. It's not that mass murder is a new thing either....the worst school massacre ever, the Bath School bombing, dates to 1927, so killing little kids ain't new either ..... but it sure seems to have gotten more prevalent in the past few decades.

    People are free to their opinions of course, but to really think the mere presence of guns is the reason things like this happen is simple-mindedness at best.

    How can this kinda shit be prevented? It can't be entirely. As crazy as it sounds, if the poor principle yesterday had had a shotgun in her office....

    You fight fire with fire. Want a fighting chance against a psychopath with a gun? Better have a gun of your own.
    I myself am only tripping over the fact that she had an assault rifle, and that it seems a bit out of character for that woman to be a gun owner. When the Second Amendment was created, there was a damn good reason to own a gun. You needed it to protect your property, your family and to hunt. You mentioned the principal had a shotgun in the school. I wonder if she was trained to use it? I'm thinking not, if he shot the door out to gain entrance. I say arm the teachers. Hell, arm the janitors too. But if they do, they better be trained on how to use it, and had better realize they damn sure cannot hesitate if they are in such a situation where they have to use it. I myself own a sub-compact 40 caliper and I pack hollow points. I'm not fucking around when it comes to protecting me or my family. I would not hesitate to use it either, and I would be going for a kill shot. I have been shooting since I was 4, and am very comfortable with a firearm.. but since I've had children, they are not in my house or my property. I have good kids, they're wonderful, but you see it all to often kids snapping, or playing with guns, or showing their friends... so I'm not taking any chances as a responsible gun owner. I have a GSD that is trained for protection in German, and I realize that if someone could break in, and shoot my dogs, I wish them luck... and I may very well be screwed...but it's a chance I'm willing to take. We need better gun laws in this country, plan and simple.
    ​"I wish I could just hug you all, but I'm not gonna."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soapy View Post
    i don't see how that would be possible...3 days on the floor would make for a very stinky situation.
    and not to mention the grief of knowing your child is dead, and still laying on the floor of the classroom.
    ​"I wish I could just hug you all, but I'm not gonna."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wendy A. View Post
    My guess would be a very unlucky substitute teacher. This is so sad. I just hope the little ones died fast, and didn't have time to be scared or realize what was happening. This is what I'll try to think. Please let there be a hell, and let this fucker (shooter) be roasting!
    Well, now reading that the school that this man went to wasn't even the school that the Mom taught at. I suppose as more of the facts come out, we will understand a little bit more. However, I just will never understand "why?"
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  41. #241
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    You can use an assault rifle for hunting. The reason most people would not is accuracy. Many assault rifles have shorter barrels and thus shoot less accurate. That and its illegal in many places. These guns are designed to kill with multiple shots.
    I am the king of all things stupid!

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  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelle1966 View Post
    Well, now reading that the school that this man went to wasn't even the school that the Mom taught at. I suppose as more of the facts come out, we will understand a little bit more. However, I just will never understand "why?"
    No shit? It's making even less sense as we learn more. I have the news on in bits, it's extremely upsetting to my little boy. Thank you for the update.
    I don't think we will ever understand why.. maybe this is why... we are sane.. only a demented disturbed person would do this or understand or see how this could happen. It's all I got right now. still can't wrap my mind around it.
    ​"I wish I could just hug you all, but I'm not gonna."

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  43. #243
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    I didn't say the principle had a shotgun....I said 'IF (she) had had a shotgun'.

    How do you know what sort of character the mother had?

    What good is your gun gonna do you for protecting you or your family if it's not even in your house or on your property?

    Do people not have the need to protect their property and family today?

    So what would 'better' gun laws entail? Chicago, NYC, DC...some of the strictest gun control laws around, and some of the highest rates of gun violence. Yesterday's shooting took place in a 'gun free zone'.

    Please understand I'm not trying to be combative here.

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wendy A. View Post
    regardless of what your news article may say, the bullets from any of those guns would do too much damage to the meat.. that is why one would hunt?
    Obviously you did not read the article I posted or have any idea what you are talking about. I do not mean to be mean here but you have absolutely no idea what you are speaking about.

    You are speaking out from an emotional point of view, not a factual one. Not that I do not understand that to a point, I do not believe we should react out of uneducated emotions.


    That is why members of my family hunt anyway. (We prefer crossbows) Besides an assault rifle is over the top. It's too much. If you need to take an assault rifle in the woods to hunt, you don't need to be hunting! That rifle TELLS you what it is.. an assault rifle. There is NO REASON for ANYONE other than military and law enforcement to have said gun in their possession. There needs to be better gun laws in the United States. I am saying this as a life time gun owner. I shot my first gun at age 4.. I believe in my rights to "Bear Arms" but I also think that this needs to have limits such as I mentioned above. When our Founding Fathers created the Second Amendment, times where much different, there were no assault rifles. Outlaw them NOW, and start screening people, AND their families before allowing them to own a fire arm. Crack down on all these illegal guns coming in that criminals are getting a hold of as well. There is no excuse why this is not done, it needs to be or many more innocent's will die. There are those who will argue that it's a rare event that such a thing would happen! Guess what? It just did, and 20 innocent little children who were anxiously awaiting Santa Claus are dead because our political system is bought and sold by the NRA and gun makers. There is not enough gun laws in place. One "Rare incident" is more than enough for me, and I'm sure it's enough for everyone here, and the families of the victims, and hell, read the news, it's not so rare that shit like this is happening anymore.
    The media cries "assault rifle" no matter what is used. A .223 is a small caliber weapon. If you read the article it would note that people are questioning whether or not it is large enough to hunt deer.

    It is also being reported that the rifle was left in the car that he simply had two handguns which back to my question earlier would show that a teacher with a handgun could have been a valid defense. I do not advocate teachers having guns. It's not something I would back or promote but the fact is, a teacher with one would have been a deterrent here.

    How has the crack down on illegal drugs coming into the country been so far? What makes you think that those who want anything will allow laws to stop them from getting them?

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by mac_lorre View Post
    He was too young to buy handguns legally, but not long guns. Why does the number of guns the woman had have you tripping?

    What's the real pressing issue here.....the fact that someone killed a bunch of people, or the way he did it? I don't remember people getting so bent out of shape about fertilizer and diesel fuel after Oklahoma City.

    Guns, even the particularly evil semi automatic ones, have been around for a long time. They're not a new variable. They used to be much easier to get. It's not that mass murder is a new thing either....the worst school massacre ever, the Bath School bombing, dates to 1927, so killing little kids ain't new either ..... but it sure seems to have gotten more prevalent in the past few decades.

    People are free to their opinions of course, but to really think the mere presence of guns is the reason things like this happen is simple-mindedness at best.

    How can this kinda shit be prevented? It can't be entirely. As crazy as it sounds, if the poor principle yesterday had had a shotgun in her office....

    You fight fire with fire. Want a fighting chance against a psychopath with a gun? Better have a gun of your own.
    The difference is the fact that these shootings are coming back to back. Is there any denying that?

    Also, the mere presence of guns this woman had in a household with a disturbed person is exactly why this happened.

    Nothing simpleminded about it.

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelle1966 View Post
    Well, now reading that the school that this man went to wasn't even the school that the Mom taught at. I suppose as more of the facts come out, we will understand a little bit more. However, I just will never understand "why?"
    The media sucks. It's not even clear that she taught anywhere. The last article I read noted that they have not been able to determine that the woman had anything to do with this school.

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    The difference is the fact that these shootings are coming back to back. Is there any denying that?

    Also, the mere presence of guns this woman had in a household with a disturbed person is exactly why this happened.

    Nothing simpleminded about it.
    There were no guns in the homes of Eric Harris or Dylan Klebold but they wanted them and found a way to get them. The guy who shot up the mall stole the gun he used.

    This did not happen because his mom owned guns. It happened because there was something in this persons make up that is not of the norm. This is where people refuse to accept realities because the realities are more scary. They want to blame something that they feel they can control because they know they can not control the thoughts of the Klebolds or Dahmers.

    Unless at some time in the future we are able to determine the thoughts of others and can change the way some think, things like this will always happen. This site has discussions full of those who act upon things most of us would never consider. Laws will never change that.

  48. #248
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    So why haven't back to back to back shootings happened in the past? Like I said, guns aren't new, mass murder isn't new.

    'Mere presence of guns....with a disturbed person' That's not exactly mere presence of guns, is it?

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by mac_lorre View Post
    So why haven't back to back to back shootings happened in the past? Like I said, guns aren't new, mass murder isn't new.

    'Mere presence of guns....with a disturbed person' That's not exactly mere presence of guns, is it?
    There have been back to back shootings and killings forever. We have more access to the news today and we don't bother with the lessons of the past. There are more and more people in the world and with that we are going to have more and more that for whatever reason have aspects to their personality that is not understandable to the rest of us.

    In places like Chicago in the 30's there were multiple killings every few days. We didn't care that much because they were mostly the undesirable members of society but there were also many innocent people killed. That was all in the past though and that doesn't register with our emotions like something like this does.

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by mac_lorre View Post
    I didn't say the principle had a shotgun....I said 'IF (she) had had a shotgun'.

    How do you know what sort of character the mother had?

    What good is your gun gonna do you for protecting you or your family if it's not even in your house or on your property?

    Do people not have the need to protect their property and family today?

    So what would 'better' gun laws entail? Chicago, NYC, DC...some of the strictest gun control laws around, and some of the highest rates of gun violence. Yesterday's shooting took place in a 'gun free zone'.

    Please understand I'm not trying to be combative here.

    I miss read about the principal. (just waking up) The character of the mother was just a stereo type of guess. My gun is obviously of no use to me right now, as it is locked in a safe at my parents house and I have trained GSD's for that reason. (I would LOVE to have my gun here) I agree that people have a great need to protect themselves, their families and property in today's world.. I just don't see the need for the assault rifle.

    I don't have the answers for what kind of better gun laws we would benefit from.. but I know something needs to be done. Something needs to be done to get the illegally obtained guns out of the hands of gang members and criminals, and people with a history of mental illness, and out of the homes with people that have mental issues.

    john*thomas I did not read the article and do not care to. I do know what I am talking about. It is not just an emotional point of view. I said we prefer crossbows, but they will still use rifles. I think it is unfair of YOU to pass judgement on ME. I am bothered by this. You do not know me. I have family members and friends in law enforcement, the military and family members and friends of the family that have held public office. I have been around guns my entire life. Honestly, you can hunt with that small of a caliper bullet, by what's the fuckin point? If you have to use that many bullets to take down a deer you are ruining the meat. If you say this gun is not very accurate, why have it for personal protection? If I have to draw my gun for protection, I am going for an acurate "kill shot" This is my opinion, I am entitled to it. Like I said, I do not have the answers for gun control laws, and I think something needs to be done to get them out of the hands of criminals.. it's much easier to obtain a gun illegally than illegally.
    Last edited by Wendy A.; 12-15-2012 at 08:22 AM.
    ​"I wish I could just hug you all, but I'm not gonna."

    ~Layne Staley


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