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Thread: Clutter Family Murders

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daphne View Post
    Well, I believe these people are death hags ( the people who bought the house ) Do you know they freakin gave tours of the home and charged for it? They also are EXTREMELY close to keeping the deaths at hand it appears in articles, my vote.. they are death hags! Woot!
    Awesome!

  2. #52
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    I have to say I don't like the original "In Cold Blood" movie... but I love the two recent ones! I do think that Capote was in love with Perry and that they did... um... show their love. What about (yes I know it is just a movie) the scene in "Capote" that Perry finds out what the title of the book is and takes Capote into the corner and covers his mouth and then says.... you fucked me over, now I'm gonna fuck you..... EWWWWWW.... anyway I have not read the book... can you find it on Amazon?


    P.S. I think that IS blood on the basement wall. Bring in CSI with the Q -tips and that liquid that turns purple when you rub it on blood!


  3. #53
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    - what nice penmanship the two killers have! Most men (sorry, guys) have awful penmanship.[/quote]


    i am employed by the post office ,and have occasionally seen trays of mail coming and going to the prison.

    in many cases the penmanship is very good indeed.

    evidently they have time to practice.
    Last edited by midnitelamp; 01-18-2008 at 01:00 PM.

  4. #54
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    From what I learned when I lived in KS, the Maders started charging to let people see the house almost in self defense....people were gawking and driving up their driveway and being nuisances. By the time I was there, there were "no tresspassing" signs posted.

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    Does anyone know if the house was purchased? I can't find anything about new owners.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by colz85 View Post
    From what I learned when I lived in KS, the Maders started charging to let people see the house almost in self defense....people were gawking and driving up their driveway and being nuisances. By the time I was there, there were "no tresspassing" signs posted.
    ...death hags will be death hags...we're everywhere...



  7. #57
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    there was an older house that may have had a safe,as described by floyd wells to hickock. does it still stand?

    wells was supposedly killed in a shoot out with police. i can find little about him.

    hickock said wells was to get a cut of the loot. he may have hanged with them,if he had not ratted 'em out when he did.

    i gues he got what was going around anyway.

  8. #58
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    This is what a visitor to the Clutter's house says about the Maders:

    "Hats off to the Leonard and Donna Mader for being such conscientious preservationists/restorationist throughout their tenure as owners of the clutter place. though motivated by their respect and admiration for herb and bonnie rather than t.c.'s literary achievement of turning the house into icb's seventh major character, their hard work not to mention their seemingly infinite patience with tc/icb admirers should be applauded by all. in 2001, i had the honor and pleasure of visiting with the maders and being shown through their lovely home."

    The Maders are definetely death hags

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by colz85 View Post
    ohhh, the 1996 version doesn't hold a CANDLE to the original. The original was shot in the actual Clutter house, and is just so amazingly well done.
    YES. There is this amazing moment in the original film, with Robert Blake. The killer he portrays is seen standing at the window, or glass doorway (it escapes me which one). The rain falling on the glass causes a reflection on Blake's face, giving the appearance of tears. It was a very somber moment as it tries to give the viewer a "heart" for these killers. Heart or not, the scene was wonderful.

    My guess is that Capote felt the same thing that in extreme cases we see often. The person who writes the death row killer (usually female), and finds love behind bars even though the prisoner will never, ever be able to hold a job on the outside, support a family etc. I think it's instinctive for most women, and even men of course, to want to "save" someone from themselves. And lets face it, death row inmates don't have too mnay people on their side like that. I'd also say it was a stretch for Capote to attend the execution not only out of some sort of "support" for the two, but also for his book most importantly. He's a writer, it's what writers do. What better way to tell a story than to be there in the thick of things. Kinda like us death hags, always wanting pictures ...even of mailboxes . Being able to witness such things allows for a kinship not everyone has.
    Goodbye Porpoise Spit!


  10. #60
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    I must say, this crime is one of many that have personally touched me because these people were SO trusting and truly believed right up until the end that they would not be harmed. I have never read a bad word about any of them. Herb and Bonnie, even their kids, were hard-working and decent people who would have given the shirts off their backs to those who asked and for them to have gone like that... horrible.

    I would like share something I found on the web, in case someone hasn't seen it before. There is a video on YouTube of a tour of Holcomb, Kansas where the murders took place. On the video, they showed crime scene photos with the bodies. I hadn't seen these particular photos and decided to do my best to do some screencaps of the video. Here they are for those interested (WARNING: DEAD BODIES AT LINKS):

    Bonnie: http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ily/Bonnie.jpg
    Herb: http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...amily/Herb.jpg
    Kenyon: http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ily/Kenyon.jpg
    Nancy: http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...mily/Nancy.jpg

    The American Justice episode of the case shows quick shots of the victims, too.

    Just a tidbit: The Clutters had 2 other children, both daughters, that were grown and living elsewhere. The evening of his death, Kenyon had just finished varnishing a beautiful hope chest he was made one of his sisters. Sad.

    Anyway, if anyone uncovers better shots, PLEASE share!
    Last edited by Avalon; 06-18-2008 at 11:20 PM. Reason: Changed pics to links; added a tidbit of information
    Erin
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  11. #61
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    Thanks for the post Avalon. I have not seen these before.

  12. #62
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    Very cool piccys.

    In Cold Blood was the first "death book" that I read. I devoured every word over a weekend, and then read it again. It fascinated me, and was the impetus for my future haggery.
    You can't get there from here. http://eclectech.co.uk/mindcontrol.php

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceege View Post
    Very cool piccys.

    In Cold Blood was the first "death book" that I read. I devoured every word over a weekend, and then read it again. It fascinated me, and was the impetus for my future haggery.
    In Cold Blood was an early precurser to my Haggery as well. In fact- I think my Mom was a closet death hag...she always had "true crime" books like In Cold Blood, and The Steven Truscott Murder, and Helter Skelter.
    I remember reading that when I was twelve. I was a voracious reader!
    My sister was quite upset I read it, it was a famous Canadian case regarding the sex slaying of an 11 year old girl, and a 13 year old boy was charged and convicted for the crime- and given the death sentence. After the death penalty was abolished in Canada, he served his time, but always maintained his innocence. My Mom was friends with the wife of the Pychiatrist who interviewed Steven Truscott ...who seemed to feel he was guilty.
    Anyway, after petitioning for the evidence to do DNA analysis, it was determined that the evidence had disappeared or been destroyed.
    Truscott served his time, lived under an assumed identity, and eventually like 40 years later was found innocent of the murder of Lynne Harper.

    My Mom let me read the book 'cause I was the same age as Lynn Harper when she was killed. However..the pics of the murder scene, showing Lynn's legs akimbo in death, kinda freaked me out.Or at least piqued my interest, I couldn't stop looking at them. I knew nothing of sex, so that part never bothered me, I had no idea what they were talking about for some of the story. Which is probably a good thing!I think I was just wondering how all this could happen to a child!

  14. #64
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    I read "In Cold Blood" in college, and got the impression that Capote was at least infatuated with Perry- his descriptions of him are far more glowing than those of Dick's. He paints Perry as somewhat of a victim himself in many ways. I didn't get the impression that his feelings were returned by Perry. It's quite possible that he picked up on Capote's feelings and used them to get some sympathy and perhaps with the hope that Capote would somehow press his case for him and maybe even get him released. I don't think, based, on my reading of Perry and his rather impulsive viciousness, that he was capable of really returning those feelings.

  15. #65
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    Thanks for the piccies. I've waited many, many years to see these. The TV show had the images going by so quickly, it was hard to get the details. Job well done!

    Quote Originally Posted by Avalon View Post
    I must say, this crime is one of many that have personally touched me because these people were SO trusting and truly believed right up until the end that they would not be harmed. I have never read a bad word about any of them. Herb and Bonnie, even their kids, were hard-working and decent people who would have given the shirts off their backs to those who asked and for them to have gone like that... horrible.

    I would like share something I found on the web, in case someone hasn't seen it before. There is a video on YouTube of a tour of Holcomb, Kansas where the murders took place. On the video, they showed crime scene photos with the bodies. I hadn't seen these particular photos and decided to do my best to do some screencaps of the video. Here they are for those interested (WARNING: DEAD BODIES AT LINKS):

    Bonnie: http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ily/Bonnie.jpg
    Herb: http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...amily/Herb.jpg
    Kenyon: http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ily/Kenyon.jpg
    Nancy: http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...mily/Nancy.jpg

    The American Justice episode of the case shows quick shots of the victims, too.

    Just a tidbit: The Clutters had 2 other children, both daughters, that were grown and living elsewhere. The evening of his death, Kenyon had just finished varnishing a beautiful hope chest he was made one of his sisters. Sad.

    Anyway, if anyone uncovers better shots, PLEASE share!

  16. #66
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    Thanks - glad you like them. I'd love to find more of them... though I always feel guilty after looking at crime photos - especially from this case since the Clutters were such great people - I still can't get enough. LOL
    Erin
    "When my time comes, forget the wrong that I've done - Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed. Don't resent me; and when you're feeling empty, keep me in your memory - leave out all the rest..." - Linkin Park - 'Leave Out All the Rest'


  17. #67
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    What a great treat to find this thread, as I'm just reading ICB for the first time ever. All the links to pics are extremely helpful. Thanks Avalon for your pics. Wow.

  18. #68
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    You're very welcome
    Erin
    "When my time comes, forget the wrong that I've done - Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed. Don't resent me; and when you're feeling empty, keep me in your memory - leave out all the rest..." - Linkin Park - 'Leave Out All the Rest'


  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimba View Post
    In Cold Blood was an early precurser to my Haggery as well. In fact- I think my Mom was a closet death hag...she always had "true crime" books like In Cold Blood, and The Steven Truscott Murder, and Helter Skelter.
    I remember reading that when I was twelve. I was a voracious reader!
    My sister was quite upset I read it, it was a famous Canadian case regarding the sex slaying of an 11 year old girl, and a 13 year old boy was charged and convicted for the crime- and given the death sentence. After the death penalty was abolished in Canada, he served his time, but always maintained his innocence. My Mom was friends with the wife of the Pychiatrist who interviewed Steven Truscott ...who seemed to feel he was guilty.
    Anyway, after petitioning for the evidence to do DNA analysis, it was determined that the evidence had disappeared or been destroyed.
    Truscott served his time, lived under an assumed identity, and eventually like 40 years later was found innocent of the murder of Lynne Harper.

    My Mom let me read the book 'cause I was the same age as Lynn Harper when she was killed. However..the pics of the murder scene, showing Lynn's legs akimbo in death, kinda freaked me out.Or at least piqued my interest, I couldn't stop looking at them. I knew nothing of sex, so that part never bothered me, I had no idea what they were talking about for some of the story. Which is probably a good thing!I think I was just wondering how all this could happen to a child!
    Interesting. I got hooked on the Truscott case when I saw the Fifth Estate special they did back in 2001, I think, and then their follow up later. Living in Seattle, I luckily get CBC news so could follow the most recent decisions, but has anything happened since? That was a major miscarriage of justice, and still no one knows who killed Lynn, except perhaps the now dead mysterious Major Kalachuk.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avalon View Post

    I would like share something I found on the web, in case someone hasn't seen it before. There is a video on YouTube of a tour of Holcomb, Kansas where the murders took place.
    Can you please post a link to that video? I'm not having any luck in my own search. And thanks for posting links to the photos, I've wanted to see those for a long time, too!
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

  21. #71
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    I feel like a bad Death Hag. I cannot stand "In Cold Blood." I have tried to get through it at least 5 times and I Just can't do it. I bores the crap out of me.

    *smacks self*


    "I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laura Castellano View Post
    Can you please post a link to that video? I'm not having any luck in my own search. And thanks for posting links to the photos, I've wanted to see those for a long time, too!
    No problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow2Q0fEGqQQ

    If the link doesn't work, the video is titled "In cold blood" and was posted by the user "ShenParis"
    Erin
    "When my time comes, forget the wrong that I've done - Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed. Don't resent me; and when you're feeling empty, keep me in your memory - leave out all the rest..." - Linkin Park - 'Leave Out All the Rest'


  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    The movie shows a lot of that. Yea, he became quite close to one of the killers. I think most would agree he wanted the story.

    I dunno, Capote was a strange little guy.
    It has been well established that Capote had sex with both the killers on multiple occasions in the prison.. He paid the prison guards off so that they would "look the other way". Capote was truly a "damaged genius" in every sense of the word.
    I'd kiss ya, but I just washed my hair...

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  24. #74
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    Thanks, Avalon! Miho, don't feel bad. 'In Cold Blood' bores the heck out of me, too. I've never made it all the way through either the book or the movie, although I did get to the halfway point in the movie once.
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

  25. #75
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    American justice put out a dvd, that had dick hickocks taped confession on it, i guess i am a death hag, because i purchased it, it does have all the crime scene photos in it.......i got it because i am an in cold blood fan, and have read the book many times, i wanted to hear what dicks voice sounded like......i know i am a freak........anyway go to the american justice website and see if they still have the video........tracia

  26. #76
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    The house was not purchased, because they were asking 275 and no one would buy it for their price, so the maders still live in the house........tracia

  27. #77
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    I`m a Kansas girl by birth....and this story will never go away there....not even BTK has quite the hold this one does.....most associated with it are now dead, but future generations are well versed in it.....not many teenagers haven`t hopped a car and headed to the Clutter farm.....moi included.....ya just don`t get that with BTK

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraciaJo View Post
    American justice put out a dvd, that had dick hickocks taped confession on it, i guess i am a death hag, because i purchased it, it does have all the crime scene photos in it.......i got it because i am an in cold blood fan, and have read the book many times, i wanted to hear what dicks voice sounded like......i know i am a freak........anyway go to the american justice website and see if they still have the video........tracia
    Now that sounds like a video I'd like to see. I will go and look immediately. Thanks! Does it have more stuff than what you see on the American Justice tv show?
    Last edited by Laura Castellano; 12-03-2008 at 09:50 PM.
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

  29. #79
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    Has anyone else ever heard that Nancy was shot at such close range it blew part of the ductape off her mouth?


    "I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."

  30. #80
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    i have seen a picture somewhere of Herbs hand,laying off the cardboard Perry placed on the floor. it is the only photo of any of the victims i have seen in situ. i guess it was introduced as evidence to compare the twine.

    truman described the Clutttes heads in their caskets as cacooned.
    Knowlege Comes With Deaths release

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  31. #81
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    If you have the Capote DVD there is an interesting documentary on Capote and how after researching and writing the book about the Clutters that he was never the same and never had another novel be as successful.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MorbidMolly View Post
    I`m a Kansas girl by birth....and this story will never go away there....not even BTK has quite the hold this one does.....most associated with it are now dead, but future generations are well versed in it.....not many teenagers haven`t hopped a car and headed to the Clutter farm.....moi included.....ya just don`t get that with BTK
    If I lived there, I would have done the same thing Molly. I definitely would have gone to the house to check it out. Do you have any pictures?

  33. #83
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    I have never read the book or seen the movies, but have read up on the case before! Hopefully my local library will have a copy so I can check it out!
    God created liquor to keep the Irish from conquering the world!

  34. #84
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    Do read 'In Cold Blood', but expect to sleep with the lights on for a few nights. Excellant book.

  35. #85
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    Years ago in High School we had to read In Cold Blood
    it got me interested with true crime books so must always
    thank Truman Capote for that.

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    The house did not sell. High bid was $100,000. Asking price $275,000. Home appraised around $135,000 and with additional land Approx $165,000.
    Heres a link.

    http://www.hauntedcolorado.net/In_Cold_Blood_House.html

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmii View Post
    The house did not sell. High bid was $100,000. Asking price $275,000. Home appraised around $135,000 and with additional land Approx $165,000.
    Heres a link.

    http://www.hauntedcolorado.net/In_Cold_Blood_House.html

    What a gorgeous house! Did the current owners stay in it then?
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  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny Mulhenny View Post
    Quickly looking over that page, I saw that Herb Clutter took out a policy on himself the night before the murders and the company paid off even though the premium wasn't deposited! That would never happen today.
    I thought the same thing. When got to the part where the insurance guy called his boss & all that I thought what a shame it is that it would NEVER happen today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miho View Post
    I feel like a bad Death Hag. I cannot stand "In Cold Blood." I have tried to get through it at least 5 times and I Just can't do it. I bores the crap out of me.

    *smacks self*
    I hated it too!! It took me three weeks to read b/c I fell asleep every 1/2 page. It was torturous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura Castellano View Post
    Thanks, Avalon! Miho, don't feel bad. 'In Cold Blood' bores the heck out of me, too. I've never made it all the way through either the book or the movie, although I did get to the halfway point in the movie once.
    Once I made it past the 1/2 way point in the book it got a little easier but it was still pretty bad until almost the end. That book went on forEVer.

    You don't mess with friggin Dave Coulier click here to mess

  39. #89
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    I saw In Cold Blood on TCM today, and I think that there were some scenes that are not on my VHS copy. You might enjoy the movie more if you read the book first.

  40. #90
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    I wonder how different the real story is from Capote's version. Maybe it's not that different. I think though that Perry was much more cold hearted than Capote wanted us to believe.

    You don't mess with friggin Dave Coulier click here to mess

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaRaRamona View Post
    I wonder how different the real story is from Capote's version. Maybe it's not that different. I think though that Perry was much more cold hearted than Capote wanted us to believe.

    You seem to think nice things about someone when you are boinking them.

    Did I say that?


    "I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miho View Post
    You seem to think nice things about someone when you are boinking them.

    Did I say that?
    LOL I guess that depends on the people involved. I thought Dick was much better looking.

    You don't mess with friggin Dave Coulier click here to mess

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmii View Post
    The house did not sell. High bid was $100,000. Asking price $275,000. Home appraised around $135,000 and with additional land Approx $165,000.
    Heres a link.

    http://www.hauntedcolorado.net/In_Cold_Blood_House.html
    The picture (the last one) that goes into the basement freaked me out big time.
    "A dreaded sunny day, so I'll meet you at the cemetry gates..." - The Smiths

  44. #94
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    I just found what was part of a series of articles from 2005 that updates information on the surviving Clutter daughters and Bonnie Clutter's brother, who broke their silence to state that Capote had some of the stories about their family all wrong.

    Here it is in PDF:
    http://www.ljworld.com/specials/inco..._daytwo_5a.pdf

    Here in HTML (You'll probably have to zoom this a lot):
    http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a

    I also found that Perry Smith's father Tex shot himself to death in 1986 at age 92. His sister Florence (called "Barbara" in the book)--- presumably she was named for their mother--- is still alive, in her late 70s.
    Alvin Dewey, named in Capote's book as the main FBI agent who cracked the case (though according to the article, apparently his activity in the story was the composite of himself and another investigator) is buried near the Clutter family.

    Nice little site here: http://www.geocities.com/sgurtd/incoldblood.html

  45. #95
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    I still think Capote told the story well and in a way that was respectful to family and friends. I get the feeling they were more upset that Capote mentioned Bonnie Clutter's health problems instead of ignoring them in the story.

    Bonnie Clutter was a troubled person, her own family admits she had an ongoing problem with depression and anxiety that had grown worse in the years before her death. One of the articles in the link quotes her friends as saying she never liked to go anywhere without her husband and that at social functions (church dinners, etc.) she used to participate in cooking, planning and entertaining, but in later years just sat and smiled shyly. The poor woman used to spend days and weeks at a time in bed - unusual for a woman in her early 40's who had no other health problems.

    It's been several years since I read the book, but I recall getting the impression poor Bonnie may have been overmedicated for her nervous condition.

  46. #96
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    Anyone have a spare $275,000 they can lend me? ;-P


    "I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."

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    I always had the impression that Bonnie suffered at first the long-term effects of postpartum depression, hence the long space between the births of the older girls and the younger doomed siblings, and her gradual collapse after Kenyon's birth. Even the brother admits that she may have been over-medicated.

    In the context of the book, it was necessary to illuminate some details of the family dynamics, if we are to understand how the family and their friends were eliminated as suspects. Capote wrote that at least one of the family friends thought Bonnie might have gone off her head, until the true details were revealed. This is not really a shocking thought anymore, with the recent cases of Andrea Yates, Deanna Laney, and others who blamed their evil deeds (including killing husbands and older children years after onset) on post-partum psychosis.

    Capote made it clear enough, IMO, that the couple was united and faithful in spite of their marital difficulties, that young Nancy and Kenyon were great kids, and that these murders were a great loss to the community. However, being the victims, they were already dead and buried before Capote got there, so obviously the bulk of the story would be about the killers, whom he DID get to know, and obsessed about.
    One imagines that even Capote might have been surprised by whatever he came to feel for Perry Smith.

    P.S., in reviewing my Clutter genealogy, I noticed that Nancy Clutter and Sharon Tate were born the same month. Hard now to imagine them at age 66.....
    Last edited by Linnie; 06-05-2009 at 12:49 PM.

  48. #98
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,207
    The Clutter Family murder story is one of the most interesting stories
    I have ever read.
    Such a great family murdered by two assholes in cold blood.
    I to this day have no sympathy for the two murderers.
    I liked IN COLD BLOOD but the movie I really fell in love with was
    "INFAMOUS"!

    In INFAMOUS we the viewer gets to peek into the world of the
    rich and famous (The Paley family and their friends) as well as
    the families in Kansas that knew the Clutters.
    That movie is so very well written and the actors are fabulous,
    Oh that Sandra Bullock!
    The murder scenes place you in the very situation that the
    Clutters went through which makes the story even more chilling.
    Bonnie and her daughter knew what was coming. Just as Sharon Tate
    did. Very Chilling! And so long ago when stories like this were so
    rare in the United States.


  49. #99
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,207
    Quote Originally Posted by Linnie View Post
    I always had the impression that Bonnie suffered at first the long-term effects of postpartum depression, hence the long space between the births of the older girls and the younger doomed siblings, and her gradual collapse after Kenyon's birth. Even the brother admits that she may have been over-medicated.

    In the context of the book, it was necessary to illuminate some details of the family dynamics, if we are to understand how the family and their friends were eliminated as suspects. Capote wrote that at least one of the family friends thought Bonnie might have gone off her head, until the true details were revealed. This is not really a shocking thought anymore, with the recent cases of Andrea Yates, Deanna Laney, and others who blamed their evil deeds (including killing husbands and older children years after onset) on post-partum psychosis.

    Capote made it clear enough, IMO, that the couple was united and faithful in spite of their marital difficulties, that young Nancy and Kenyon were great kids, and that these murders were a great loss to the community. However, being the victims, they were already dead and buried before Capote got there, so obviously the bulk of the story would be about the killers, whom he DID get to know, and obsessed about.
    One imagines that even Capote might have been surprised by whatever he came to feel for Perry Smith.

    P.S., in reviewing my Clutter genealogy, I noticed that Nancy Clutter and Sharon Tate were born the same month. Hard now to imagine them at age 66.....
    I felt so sorry for Bonnie Clutter! She was so fragile.

  50. #100
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    35
    I'm so glad I found this thread. I watched the movie (the old one) in the mid 90's and it was so awesomely creepy. I actually thought it was fiction until I did some more research, and eventually read the book.

    There is a part of the book that freaks me out more than anything. Someone in the book who knew the Clutters had a dream after the murders with Bonnie in it. In the dream, Bonnie was saying "to be murdered, to be murdered..." *shudder*

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