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Thread: Clutter Family Murders

  1. #151
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    I have the Original prints to the Finney County Court House, "Garden City, Ks" The jail plans and the Court room plans all of them. Everything in the Movie "In Cold Blood" was filmed on location, from the murder scene to the Court House. Drawn 1928 on Waxed Linen with India Ink. And they are for sale. I have them because my Grandfather was State Architect and drew them. Contact me at ten9399@hotmail.com or 620-665-4093.


    [QUOTE=Alanwench;123380]If this has already been addressed, forgive me. I'm a lazy bitch and didn't take the time to look. In November, 1959, Herbert Clutter, his wife Bonnie, son Kenyon and daughter Nancy were killed by two intruders who entered the home via an unlocked door.
    The story was documented in Truman Capote's In Cold Blood. I'm wondering if other death hags have seen the crime scene pics somewhere online and if any further resources are available.

  2. #152
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    I have the Original Prints Drawn on Waxed Linen with India Ink for the Finney County, Kansas "Garden City, Ks.". Drawn in 1928 by my Grandfather when he was State Architect. This is the Court House where Smith and Hickok were held in jail and tried for the Clutter Murders. The Movie "In Cold Blood" was filmed on location from the crime scene to the Court House.
    I have these prints up for sale. Contact info, ten9399@hotmail.com or 620-665-4093.

  3. #153
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    Y'all have really scarred me for life this time. I knew the general story on this, but yesterday I clicked one of the links in this thread (took me to the TruTv Crime Library) and read up on this case. Horrifying. I didn't even make it to the part where the people were killed, just to where the killers had them all in the bathroom. Holy crap. I usually love true crime, but for some reason this one just terrifies me. I spent all of yesterday evening convinced someone was going to murder me. Thanks, guys!

    I have come across Capote's book on the case several times at Thrift Shops and the like, and for some reason I always pass on it (Helter Skelter is another one I can't bring myself to buy). Now I am so glad I have never made the purchase... especially when I lived alone!

  4. #154
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    This is my favorite crime story, horrible as it may be. I just can't get over the fact they murdered this entire family for nothing. I know they were cold blooded killers but to shoot Nancy and Kenyon at point blank...Nancy pleading....killing Mrs. Clutter last after she heard the other shots..I so wish Mr. Clutter could have fought back somehow.

    I think the death photos have been doctored except for Mr. Clutters.

    I thought it strange the caskets were open, even if just for family. I just can't figure out how the funeral home was able to make their heads presentable after being shot with a shotgun.

  5. #155
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    One of the things that has intrigued me about this crime is the why Perry did the killings to begin with. One moment, he's saving Nancy from getting raped by Dick, having a nice conversation with her, helping Mr. Clutter get more comfortable in his binding, realizing that there really wasn't a safe and the whole situation was nuts. They could have just walked away at that point. Then Perry snaps. I remember reading the book for the first time, and thinking that Dick probably did the killings, since he was more of a punk than Perry. But the twist was that Perry did the deed. Just bizarre.
    Cindy

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by leevancleef View Post
    I cant find crime scene photos by now, but this link might be interesting to some of you:

    http://www2.ljworld.com/photos/galle...acy_in_photos/
    Thanks for sharing this link I found it very interesting. I'm really amazed that anyone would want to live in the former Clutter home considering it's history, although it is nice to see that the current owners did turn it in to a lovely family home.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by colz85 View Post
    ohhh, the 1996 version doesn't hold a CANDLE to the original. The original was shot in the actual Clutter house, and is just so amazingly well done.

    I lived for about two years in Garden City, where the trial was held. I remember walking up the steps to the courthouse to register my car or somesuch, and thinking "This is where Dick and Perry had to walk". I drove past the house a few times, but you can't see much from the road. I did have a chance to take a few pictures when I was up in a small plane though.
    Wow as many times as I have seen the original version of the movie (which is by far the best) I never knew it was filmed in the actual Clutter home.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avalon View Post
    Thanks - glad you like them. I'd love to find more of them... though I always feel guilty after looking at crime photos - especially from this case since the Clutters were such great people - I still can't get enough. LOL
    I also feel guilty of this too almost ashamed of myself....but...I simply can't help myself. Even though I consider myself the biggest chicken shit in the world I have always been fascinated by murder mysteries and crime stories. I hate the fact that these sweet and gentle people were killed in such a brutal manner it's just sickening!

  9. #159
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    Ironically, Scott Wilson who played Richard Hicock in the original "In Cold Blood" played one of the victims in "Monster", the movie about Aileene Wurnous. He is the one who tries to reach out to Charlize Theron but she can't control her rage and shoots him anyway.

  10. #160
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    The original was a great movie, still makes my heart pound, I always wondered what happened to Scott Wilson, he and Blake did an excellant job.

    I would love to see the Clutter house and graves. I thought it odd Herb and Bonnie had seperate bedrooms.

    I read a interview with Dick Hickock's younger brother, it was sad. Could you imagine your brother committing such a brutal crime? I think Dick had sons, I wonder what happened to them.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leasie View Post
    The original was a great movie, still makes my heart pound, I always wondered what happened to Scott Wilson, he and Blake did an excellant job.

    I would love to see the Clutter house and graves. I thought it odd Herb and Bonnie had seperate bedrooms.

    I read a interview with Dick Hickock's younger brother, it was sad. Could you imagine your brother committing such a brutal crime? I think Dick had sons, I wonder what happened to them.
    Leasie~I had read that the reason Herb and Bonnie had separate bedrooms was because of the health problems that she had. From what I gathered she was in pretty bad shape.

  12. #162
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    I picked up a copy of In Cold Blood at a thrift store in town and reading it now. Such a sad crazy story. I just can't get it out of my mind how awful this story is and yes I do agree that Perry is the one who did the killing.

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    This was the story that made me the death hag I am today .... I read it over and over and did substantial research on the family at our local library back in the 70's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daphne View Post
    This was the story that made me the death hag I am today .... I read it over and over and did substantial research on the family at our local library back in the 70's.
    Me too.

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    A few years ago, I was driving through Kansas in the middle of the night. Along a dark, deserted section of road, I began to feel very uneasy. I actually thought to myself, "This place feels evil." Minutes later I passed a sign that said "Holcomb". It sounded very familiar to me, but at the time, it didn't dawn on me that it was the site of the Clutter murders, though I had read In Cold Blood years ago. Not until I got home and researched the name (because I was extremelyunnerved by the feelings I'd had) did I realize the connection. Eerie.

  16. #166
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    I read it about 2 years ago, after many years of saying "I should read that", knowing the death hag/true crime buff I am. I thought it was well written and interesting, but I did get a bit of the sympathy for the killers vibe from Capote.


  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leasie View Post
    I thought it strange the caskets were open, even if just for family. I just can't figure out how the funeral home was able to make their heads presentable after being shot with a shotgun.
    According to Capote, the family's heads were covered with some kind of gauzy cloth, which was sprayed with some kind of shiny stuff. Like a bunch of faceless, well-dressed scarecrows, I imagine.
    Which sounds WAY worse and WAY creepier than even their facial wounds, properly cleaned up and sutured, might have looked.
    The way they died was terrible enough, but such a sight must have given people nightmares for YEARS.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linnie View Post
    According to Capote, the family's heads were covered with some kind of gauzy cloth, which was sprayed with some kind of shiny stuff. Like a bunch of faceless, well-dressed scarecrows, I imagine.
    Which sounds WAY worse and WAY creepier than even their facial wounds, properly cleaned up and sutured, might have looked.
    The way they died was terrible enough, but such a sight must have given people nightmares for YEARS.
    OMG....how awful. Maybe it's just me, but I certainly don't get this incessant need for "viewings". Ummmm, no thanks- I would much rather see lovely photographs placed around a closed casket and remember a person as they were in life.


    Casper, I love you so much baby boy... waking up with you in the house is a blessing every day! Thank you for filling our home and hearts with so much love, joy, laughter and ever so sweet Sammy smiles! We belong together! XOXOX

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    Quote Originally Posted by FooFoo Shnickens View Post
    Y'all have really scarred me for life this time. I knew the general story on this, but yesterday I clicked one of the links in this thread (took me to the TruTv Crime Library) and read up on this case. Horrifying. I didn't even make it to the part where the people were killed, just to where the killers had them all in the bathroom. Holy crap. I usually love true crime, but for some reason this one just terrifies me. I spent all of yesterday evening convinced someone was going to murder me. Thanks, guys!

    I have come across Capote's book on the case several times at Thrift Shops and the like, and for some reason I always pass on it (Helter Skelter is another one I can't bring myself to buy). Now I am so glad I have never made the purchase... especially when I lived alone!
    Now have an Unsolved Mysteries marathon.

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    I can't help but think how a new book about this case would be so much more awesome. I really hated Capote's. I really really did. This is an amazing story. But he made it duller than a box of hair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaRaRamona View Post
    I can't help but think how a new book about this case would be so much more awesome. I really hated Capote's. I really really did. This is an amazing story. But he made it duller than a box of hair.
    I've never read this and now I'm not real inclined to.....ha ha ha RaRa, duller than a box of hair!!! LOL!!!


    Casper, I love you so much baby boy... waking up with you in the house is a blessing every day! Thank you for filling our home and hearts with so much love, joy, laughter and ever so sweet Sammy smiles! We belong together! XOXOX

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynful View Post
    OMG....how awful. Maybe it's just me, but I certainly don't get this incessant need for "viewings". Ummmm, no thanks- I would much rather see lovely photographs placed around a closed casket and remember a person as they were in life.
    I have to agree with you on that. That really had to be a horrific site to see, I can't imagine the logic behind letting people be viewed like that. Personally I found it to be undignified and disrespectful to the victims IMO.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daphne View Post
    This was the story that made me the death hag I am today .... I read it over and over and did substantial research on the family at our local library back in the 70's.
    This is kind of wild. But in 1979/80, my friend and I went up to Berkley to visit a friend who was attending UC Berkley. We had some down time and went to their local library, and I did some research on the story. They had tons of stuff and it was the first time I had seen pictures of the Clutters and their killers (I had just got done reading the book). Not sure if it was the same library, but it was a cool old place. Had a blast there!
    Cindy

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    I found a couple pictures of the Clutter crime scene..


    This is Herb Clutter.


    Kenyon Clutter.


    Perry Smith's bloody boot print.


    Smith's Boot.


    Dick Hickock's booking sheet.


    Perry Smith's booking sheet.

    Is this what you're all looking for? I live about 40 miles from Holcomb Ks, where the clutter house is. I've been facinated by this story since I was a kid.

  25. #175
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    Thanks Brit


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  26. #176
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    Brit, have you ever seen the Clutter house?

    The photo of Kenyon has always bothered me the most, it is just....so sad.

  27. #177
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    I thought the same thing. And I have to admit, I think this makes for a terrifying story, but I didn't find the book scary or even suspenseful. It's supposed to be this classic crime book, but I thought it was forgetable at best, and that's a shame. This story deserved a better treatment.

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by racingfan View Post
    I thought the same thing. And I have to admit, I think this makes for a terrifying story, but I didn't find the book scary or even suspenseful. It's supposed to be this classic crime book, but I thought it was forgetable at best, and that's a shame. This story deserved a better treatment.

    Worst book EVER!


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  29. #179
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    Eee! I was hoping to find a thread on this.

    I got obsessed with these murders after I had to read In Cold Blood for Sophomore English in HS. We got to watch the movie too. I was surprised that they didn't make our parents sign permission slips. As the whole class thought it was gory. The movie that is. The book wasn't as good. But, at the end of the film. The majority of the class was joking about them hanging the bastards.

    I'm still a little obsessed with these murders. Back in the 70s a family was murdered here in Lexington almost just like the Clutters. Way before my time. But, my mom remembers the Barnes family being killed.
    Last edited by Dr. Fishhead; 07-27-2012 at 11:58 PM.
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  30. #180
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    Not to go off topic, but I have studied the Barnes family murder in detail and have read the trial transcripts and seen the police file. It was a very Clutter type murder. The surviving mother has since passed away. Lucky for her she wasn't home that day.

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    My mom remembers it so well cause she drove past their home everyday on the way to work. Creepy!

    There's really nothing about it online. So, Andrea. If you know some stuff. Start a thread. It would be appreciated. Cause, I want to learn more about those murders. And, Mrs. Barnes was a pillar of the Lexington community until she died recently.

    And...back on topic! I have never seen those crime scene photos before. So eerie. *shivers*
    Last edited by Dr. Fishhead; 07-28-2012 at 08:41 AM.
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  32. #182
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    This crime is what made me become a death hag.
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  33. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynful View Post
    I've never read this and now I'm not real inclined to.....ha ha ha RaRa, duller than a box of hair!!! LOL!!!
    Been reading your posts for a long time. Know you are a thoughtful, critical thinker, with many insightful things to say after much thought.

    The Capote book is excellent, definitely not dull, a true crime classic, rave reviews still today in true crime on about every list, even after all these years.

    If you do decide to read it, I'd love to hear your take.

    I remember as a child seeing the four pictures of the victims, one on top of the other, down the page - parents, children, with the horrific story along side - on the front page of the newspaper in KC. Being so young, parents talking, same state, it scared me. I also remember hearing news reports on the day the killers died.
    Last edited by dia846; 08-04-2012 at 12:26 AM.

  34. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by dia846 View Post
    Been reading your posts for a long time. Know you are a thoughtful, critical thinker, with many insightful things to say after much thought.

    The Capote book is excellent, definitely not dull, a true crime classic, rave reviews still today in true crime on about every list, even after all these years.

    If you do decide to read it, I'd love to hear your take.

    I remember as a child seeing the four pictures of the victims, one on top of the other, down the page - parents, children, with the horrific story along side - on the front page of the newspaper in KC. Being so young, parents talking, same state, it scared me. I also remember hearing news reports on the day the killers died.
    I agree with you about the Capote book. I thought it was beautifully written and haunting. I remember it stirred so many emotions in me throughout the book. It must have been so frightening for you to be aware of those murders as a child.

    Forgive me if this has already been hashed through in the thread, but the movie "Capote" with Philip Seymor Hoffman is also excellent. It takes place during the time he writes In Cold Blood with his friend and "assistant" Harper Lee (who later wrote To Kill a Mockingbird) at his side. For me, the movie captured that same kind of melancholy as his book.
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  35. #185
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    Yes. I love the movie Capote. Hoffman (who's one of my favorite actors anyway) does a freaking excellent job portraying Truman.
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  36. #186
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    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...E_Video_second

    "Beside some trash bins outside his mother's house, Ron Nye discovered a signed first-edition of "In Cold Blood," Truman Capote's best-selling account of the 1959 murder of the Clutter family near Holcomb, Kan.

    Next to the book lay something even rarer: a copy of the Kansas Bureau of Investigation case file on the Clutter murders. Mr. Nye's father, the late Harold Nye, had been a lead investigator on the Clutter case. The documents that he brought home in the 1960s—and that his widow had put out as trash following his death in 2003—included grisly crime-scene photographs, letters, notebooks and other case files never before made public."



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  37. #187
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    What a find. I'm curious about the "new and disturbing detail" found in the notes about the murders. And the photos.

  38. #188
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    Why would she toss rare documents and a signed first addition?
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    When ICB was released,you could not buy a copy and you had to get on a waiting list at the library.[this was after the movie was out].

    Pitiful when Hickcoks father tries to talk his son out of leaving at the start of the film.

    In Cold Blood is probably as close to the Great American Novel we will see. Gatsby still way up there,though.
    Knowlege Comes With Deaths release

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    Darn those wives, always wanting to get rid of their hubbies' stuff!!!
    I confess I want to see those photos and those "disturbing" notes.
    I wonder if Nye found anything to connect Smith and Hickok with that other unsolved family murder later that year in Florida, or others? Boy, that would have shot down Capote's delusion that the Clutters were a one-off, almost accidental execution by a couple of "society's victims." Maybe S&H, or just S, found they LIKED operating that way.
    I also sympathize with the surviving Clutter sisters, but so much other pictorial evidence has been out there for so many years. They MUST know that. Short of autopsy photos, how much worse are the pictures Nye Sr. kept?
    Actually, I wish there was a photo of the open caskets at the wake, with the family's heads covered in glittery gauze. Now THAT would creep the heck out of ME.
    Nobody, I think, will ever completely forget this crime story, and maybe they shouldn't.
    Last edited by Linnie; 09-15-2012 at 02:35 PM.

  41. #191
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    but,ICB is considered a "non-fiction Novel" so Capote was not constrained by facts.
    Knowlege Comes With Deaths release

    Heaven's on the pillow,it's Silence competes with Hell

    "If you don't go to other peoples' funerals,they won't come to yours."-Yogi Berra

  42. #192
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    Linnie, I also wish there was a funeral home picture, I just can't picture the heads in glittery gauze, wonder if this was common to do with head trauma victims back in the day, you would think they would have just left the caskets closed.

    I read in the movie "Capote" there is a funeral home scene that shows the family in the caskets, wonder if this true.

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    I also think the family did not like Capote's version because he revealed a lot about the Clutter family dynamics they would have preferred to forget.... Namely the myriad physical/mental ailments of Bonnie Fox Clutter, and her separations / sequestration from Herb, who apparently remained a faithful devoted husband in spite of the separate bedrooms and her unhappy behavior which at one point, led to psychiatric treatment.

    One of her problems was, apparently, related to postpartum depression. It wasn't too severe with the births of the two eldest daughters, and she actually seemed to recover, but after several years, she became pregnant again twice in a short interval. After Kenyon's birth, her issues escalated, or so Capote gathered from neighbors, and she supposedly feared the imminent gathering of the clan for her second daughter Beverly's wedding. Another lesser, but potent problem was, possibly, her frustration at not being permitted by her family and religious duties from pursuing her original career as a nurse.

    One of the most offensive passages to the family, I can WELL imagine, was the Capote-reported reaction of a close friend to the breaking news of the murders. This woman's alleged first thought was to the effect of "OMG, Bonnie, what have you done?" indicating some neighbors felt she was clearly disturbed in some way, while the family claimed it was somehow due to bad back troubles. And one can't blame the family--- anything that would detract from the guilt of the REAL killers, as Capote was implying, is certainly an insult to the memory of a blameless and very tragic victim. But it also adds real pathos to the whole picture--- the family really was hopeful new medical treatments would alleviate some of Bonnie's symptoms, and they never got the chance to find out.
    Last edited by Linnie; 09-17-2012 at 05:52 PM.

  44. #194
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    I don't think the caskets were open,our proto hag truman may have snuck a peek.
    Knowlege Comes With Deaths release

    Heaven's on the pillow,it's Silence competes with Hell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linnie View Post
    I also think the family did not like Capote's version because he revealed a lot about the Clutter family dynamics they would have preferred to forget.... Namely the myriad physical/mental ailments of Bonnie Fox Clutter, and her separations / sequestration from Herb, who apparently remained a faithful devoted husband in spite of the separate bedrooms and her unhappy behavior which at one point, led to psychiatric treatment.

    One of her problems was, apparently, related to postpartum depression. It wasn't too severe with the births of the two eldest daughters, and she actually seemed to recover, but after several years, she became pregnant again twice in a short interval. After Kenyon's birth, her issues escalated, or so Capote gathered from neighbors, and she supposedly feared the imminent gathering of the clan for her second daughter Beverly's wedding. Another lesser, but potent problem was, possibly, her frustration at not being permitted by her family and religious duties from pursuing her original career as a nurse.

    One of the most offensive passages to the family, I can WELL imagine, was the Capote-reported reaction of a close friend to the breaking news of the murders. This woman's alleged first thought was to the effect of "OMG, Bonnie, what have you done?" indicating some neighbors felt she was clearly disturbed in some way, while the family claimed it was somehow due to bad back troubles. And one can't blame the family--- anything that would detract from the guilt of the REAL killers, as Capote was implying, is certainly an insult to the memory of a blameless and very tragic victim. But it also adds real pathos to the whole picture--- the family really was hopeful new medical treatments would alleviate some of Bonnie's symptoms, and they never got the chance to find out.
    I have seen both movies (the one with Robert Blake and the TV version with Anthony Edwards) but I've never caared to read the book...up until now. Excellent insight, Linnie, and now my curiosity has me searching for the nearest copy...
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    Seems like the killers may be exhumed and tested to see if they were the ones that committed a similar murder in Florida.

    ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - A Florida detective trying to crack a 53-year-old unsolved murder case will ask a Kansas judge for permission to exhume and extract DNA from the bodies of two notorious killers made famous in Truman Capote's 1966 true-crime novel, "In Cold Blood."

    Sarasota County Sheriff Detective Kim McGath told Reuters she believes the two men convicted for the 1959 murder of Herbert Clutter, his wife and two children in Holcomb, Kansas, might be responsible for a similar killing one month later of a family in Osprey, Florida.
    http://news.yahoo.com/dna-cold-blood...192426201.html
    "My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~
    And It Harm None Do What ye will. Wise Intelligent Teacher Courageous Healer. #METOO

  47. #197
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    Nov 2009
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    Southern Indiana
    Posts
    3,812
    I have been reading about this. Good for the investigators for keeping the clothing with DNA for all of this years. I say dig them up. Hope the Clutter family won't be upset about all of the attention this could bring to their families graves but they should want this crime solved.

  48. #198
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,207
    Maybe I missed it on this thread but INFAMOUS is one of the best movies made about the Clutter murders
    in my opinion.

    One of my favorite movies of all time! Here is the Trailer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZw8ORyIbLI

  49. #199
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    394
    Quote Originally Posted by pkstracy View Post
    Seems like the killers may be exhumed and tested to see if they were the ones that committed a similar murder in Florida.

    ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - A Florida detective trying to crack a 53-year-old unsolved murder case will ask a Kansas judge for permission to exhume and extract DNA from the bodies of two notorious killers made famous in Truman Capote's 1966 true-crime novel, "In Cold Blood."

    Sarasota County Sheriff Detective Kim McGath told Reuters she believes the two men convicted for the 1959 murder of Herbert Clutter, his wife and two children in Holcomb, Kansas, might be responsible for a similar killing one month later of a family in Osprey, Florida.
    http://news.yahoo.com/dna-cold-blood...192426201.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Leasie View Post
    I have been reading about this. Good for the investigators for keeping the clothing with DNA for all of this years. I say dig them up. Hope the Clutter family won't be upset about all of the attention this could bring to their families graves but they should want this crime solved.
    Looks like the exhumation took place today.

  50. #200
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    Nov 2009
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    Posts
    3,812
    I want photographs!!!

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