Kurt Cobain

[Cynful]

Fuck Richard Nixon.

I doubt Rooney was holding him up as a hero. But in terms of importance historically? Yeah grunge was big but Nixon still trumps Nirvana.

Yeah, but I hate that son of a bitch.

Tricky Dick minus the tricky.

[radiojane]

Good point! Loved all the replys to the question about Rooney's point of view on Cobain. I too think Andy Rooney had some very good points. Bottom line: Kurt is dead and what for.....depression, drugs?? He had so much to live for plus a beautiful baby girl. Very sad and so not worth it.

I'd forgotten that he had child. That negates any and all sympathy I had for Kobain. You do not bring a child into the world and put them through the hell of knowing their parent chose to end their own life. I don't understand how you could be a parent and make the choice not to be there.

Granted I can rant and rave all I want, but I've never felt that urge, and my depression has always been manageable, so who the hell am I to talk. But I can see where the whole thing would have turned Rooney's stomach.

[Jason]

I'm not saying Andy Rooney would have ever understood or loved our generation's music but that doesn't discount his generation and the generations before him that lived through tougher times then ours

of course not, I see it all as an ongoing cycle to be honest. There were people who were depressed and ended it during Rooney's day just as Kurt ended it during the 90's and somebody will end it tomorrow. Tougher times? I think it's all relative, trying to get by in today's economy is pretty fucking tough. Maybe similar to a "great depression" or maybe we are going through our own version of it? we've gone through Wars, still going through one now. I just see it as an old guy bashing a young guy for being more interesting than a president that Rooney probably covered on his show. To me, Kurt was more important than Nixon at that time... and I think the coverage was justified.

Every time the genre changes it has either built upon it or "killed it" the same could be said of the generations that came before Rock n' Roll I'm sure they felt Rock 'n Roll killed Big Band and Jazz

yeah, but Jazz/Big Band are such worlds apart from Rock/Grunge. It's like comparing classical music to Rock n roll, where Grunge is pretty much just a branch on the Rock tree. A very dingy and withered branch Jazz and Big Band probably went over so many peoples heads that Rock became the solution for people who just wanted simple, catchy tunes. I don't think Jazz/Big Band lost their audiences to Rock n Roll, I think if you like that kind of music you always like it and if you don't, you never will. I think Grunge was trying to get back to the basics of what Rock was suppose to be all about

Good point! Loved all the replys to the question about Rooney's point of view on Cobain. I too think Andy Rooney had some very good points. Bottom line: Kurt is dead and what for.....depression, drugs?? He had so much to live for plus a beautiful baby girl. Very sad and so not worth it.

yeah, looking in from the outside his suicide doesn't make much sense. I've heard he was in constant pain from stomach issues, hated himself (obviously), hated fame and the world... but, he should have tried to pull out of it for his kids sake.

[KCBee]

He woke up to Courtney Love every morning. That's all the permission I need.

[Jason]

HA! he once said she was a great fuck, maybe that's about all he could say about her.

[radiojane]

of course not, I see it all as an ongoing cycle to be honest. There were people who were depressed and ended it during Rooney's day just as Kurt ended it during the 90's and somebody will end it tomorrow. Tougher times? I think it's all relative, trying to get by in today's economy is pretty fucking tough. Maybe similar to a "great depression" or maybe we are going through our own version of it? we've gone through Wars, still going through one now. I just see it as an old guy bashing a young guy for being more interesting than a president that Rooney probably covered on his show. To me, Kurt was more important than Nixon at that time... and I think the coverage was justified.
.

If this is "Our version" of the dirty thirties we're doing damned well, seeing as even those in the worst shape seem to be able to afford an iphone. It doesn't compare, sorry. While i will concede that times are tough all over there is a big damned difference between flour sack dresses and osteoporosis from lack of fresh milk and "I'll have another kid and get more food stamps."

People are struggling for sure. But had they learned anything about thrift or delayed gratification from previous generations, they'd be in a heck of a lot less of a mess. Kobain had it all. He had issues but he had it all. I can totally see why someone who could clearly remember bread lines wrapping around the block would wonder why he couldn't be a little more happy with what he had.

[Mammy]

I'm sure that he would have loved to have been happy with what he had, but depression is an illness not a state of mind. For some people depression is debilitating and it can't be overcome by thinking happy thoughts. It just doesn't work that way. From the outside looking in, Kurt had it all and threw it away. I would imagine in Kurt's mind that even he thought he should be happy with everything in his life and it probably made him feel guilty and even more depressed that he wasn't happy. He was talented and popular, but that didn't make him happy because he didn't enjoy fame. He was married to a crazy bitch who probably threw his shortcomings and issues up in his face constantly and rubbed his nose in it, which made him feel worse. He had a baby girl that he loved and probably didn't feel like he was a good enough dad for her. He had issues with constant stomach pain. I'm not making excuses for him and I'm not even a fan of his music, but he just had a sad, haunting look about him even before he died. I also don't believe that he killed himself, but since he had struggled with depression and had issues in his life, it was just accepted that he ended it.

[Jason]

If this is "Our version" of the dirty thirties we're doing damned well, seeing as even those in the worst shape seem to be able to afford an iphone. It doesn't compare, sorry. While i will concede that times are tough all over there is a big damned difference between flour sack dresses and osteoporosis from lack of fresh milk and "I'll have another kid and get more food stamps."

People are struggling for sure. But had they learned anything about thrift or delayed gratification from previous generations, they'd be in a heck of a lot less of a mess. Kobain had it all. He had issues but he had it all. I can totally see why someone who could clearly remember bread lines wrapping around the block would wonder why he couldn't be a little more happy with what he had.

eh, they got through it. Just like we'll get through "our version" of it. People have iPhones but can't afford the rent, just shit priorities which I'm sure were found back in the 30's... just without the iPhone. Continuous cycle.

[cindyt]

Really? your posts on dear old tricky dick are usually so gently worded I never would have guessed Cindy!

smileyslaughing_holding-head_100-100.gif

[Noor 7ayaty]

"And remember that suicide note? It was really a song he was writing, none of it was written like a suicide note except for the last part that was scrawled in a different pen and what seems to be a different hand."

I've studied the note and yeah, I noted the obvious change(s) in penmanship. I've been as suspicious as anyone on this death, but I think the changes in handwriting (toward the end of the note) could have a LOT to do with a massive load of heroin kicking in while he was writing it. If anything, I believe the note was more of "I'm going away, retiring, and I want to be left alone" rather than a suicide note. "Don't follow me," he tells Courtney. But until we get something more conclusive (more substantial than mere speculation), I have to go with the suicide theory.

I seem to recall a (private?) investigator reporting that Courtney was found to have a piece of paper on which she was obviously trying to copy Kurt's handwriting.

Either way, most sources agree that the investgation into Kurt's death was massively screwed up on many levels, foremost being the police detectives and coroner's investigations. Thanks to facts such as that, speculations are likely to be part of the discussion of Kurt's passing forever.

Jefe also has an excellent point; at that time I was reporting to four of the top five music trade magazines, and Nirvana was being promoted over AIC at a ratio of at least five-to-one. Also they got plenty free publicity, such as when WalMart refused to sell the Nirvana LP "Nevermind" due to the album cover...

[Shejay]

If this is "Our version" of the dirty thirties we're doing damned well, seeing as even those in the worst shape seem to be able to afford an iphone. It doesn't compare, sorry. While i will concede that times are tough all over there is a big damned difference between flour sack dresses and osteoporosis from lack of fresh milk and "I'll have another kid and get more food stamps."

People are struggling for sure. But had they learned anything about thrift or delayed gratification from previous generations, they'd be in a heck of a lot less of a mess. Kobain had it all. He had issues but he had it all. I can totally see why someone who could clearly remember bread lines wrapping around the block would wonder why he couldn't be a little more happy with what he had.

I love you RadioJane!

[Jason]

not sure this was posted already, 9 part documentary on Kurts last 48 hours.

PART 1

seems his biggest plight was his addiction to heroin. I guess if Rooney was addicted to Heroin and kicked it, I'd have a bit more respect for is opinion... but just like he'd never get the grunge movement, I don't think he was qualified to get drug addicts struggling with their habits.

[Aries65]

Personally, I think Courtney had something to do with it. He was going to divorce her and she didn't want to lose her piece of the pie.

[Mammy]

Yep, Aries, that is what I have always believed. I don't think for one second that he killed himself. Now that Frances is old enough to look into things herself, I wonder what she thinks about it?

[Jason]

I don't know, he certainly was a miserable guy... not ruling out foul play, but he did try and kill himself in the past. He did buy a gun and he did escape from rehab to get a flight back to Seattle. So, if he was murdered he didn't make it easy to help make it NOT seem like a suicide. I think the guy was just bored, he got what he wanted and it didn't make him feel any better.

[Mammy]

I think a lot of people who live with depression think "if I just had money, or fame, or whatever else, then I would be happy." Then if they are able to get what they wanted, they discover they still aren't happy. Fame has a huge downside that he may not have realized until he got there. I know he had tried in the past to kill himself and maybe he actually succeeded this time, but I just think the whole thing was kinda fishy. If Courtney did have anything to do with his death, she had the perfect setup since people knew he had tried suicide before, he was depressed, and he had substance abuse problems. Having him killed but having it staged to look like a suicide would have been easy to get away with because of his history.

[Jason]

I think a lot of people who live with depression think "if I just had money, or fame, or whatever else, then I would be happy." Then if they are able to get what they wanted, they discover they still aren't happy. Fame has a huge downside that he may not have realized until he got there. I know he had tried in the past to kill himself and maybe he actually succeeded this time, but I just think the whole thing was kinda fishy. If Courtney did have anything to do with his death, she had the perfect setup since people knew he had tried suicide before, he was depressed, and he had substance abuse problems. Having him killed but having it staged to look like a suicide would have been easy to get away with because of his history.

yeah, anything is certainly possible... my mind isn't leaning in that direction, I just feel she isn't the type to have gotten away with killing somebody who was so popular. Watching documentary's on Cobain, he was always looking for something to fill him up. After his parents divorce his world changed and he always had this hollow emptiness inside. I know the fame didn't fill the void but his child did, sucks that he couldn't hang onto that feeling to get through his shit. Of course, if he was murdered than all of what I said is null n void.

[Mammy]

Yeah, I've never particularily been a fan, but he just had this haunted look on his face the majority of the time and he just looked so sad. I think having Courtney for a wife didn't make his life any easier or more enjoyable and she just seems the type who enjoys turning the knife if things aren't going her way. She probably liked to make him feel inadequate as a dad and a human being. No matter what happened to him, I don't see where any actual investigating took place after he was found dead. It looked like a suicide by a guy with a history of depression, failed suicide attempts, and substance abuse, so it was wrapped up quickly.

[Aries65]

I don't know how anyone with an overdose worth of heroin in their system has the strength or state of mind to be able to handle shotgun and perfectly aim it for that one shot. Sorry, I've never bought the suicide angle. I also thought that documentary that guy Nick (forget his last name) did about Kurt & Courtney was pretty convincing.

[Mammy]

That is exactly why I have always doubted this was a suicide, Aries. I don't think he would even be functional, let alone able to make a fatal head shot.

[Jason]

why wouldn't they re-open the case if it's such a convincing argument? Cobain's friends have said his demeanor/mood in the "Heart Shaped Box" video seemed very accurate to his state of mind right before he died. Watching that they really knew something was going on in his head that was worse than usual. I gotta watch Kurt and Courtney, I popped it on years ago but didn't really give it my full attention.

[philbert_wormly]

I don't know how anyone with an overdose worth of heroin in their system has the strength or state of mind to be able to handle shotgun and perfectly aim it for that one shot. Sorry, I've never bought the suicide angle. I also thought that documentary that guy Nick (forget his last name) did about Kurt & Courtney was pretty convincing.

Nick Broomfield, honey.

I saw that one and he had a tear in his voice during some of his narrative. But, for the documentary he did on Biggie and Tupac he did not have a tear in his voice at all. That always stuck out to me for some reason because I watched both of those documentaries on cable back to back not all that long ago.

It is all weird. Courtney Love just has never been quite right ever. Just not ever. Maybe if Kurt Cobain married the grunge equivalent of Marie Osmond, folks would think differently about some of the more unique and downright fishy aspects behind his passing? I dunno.

[Mammy]

OMG, I nearly pissed my pants over Kurt marrying the grunge equivalent of Marie Osmond! What a hoot! I do agree with your opinion though. Just the fact that nutty ass Courtney was a part of the story made the whole thing fishy.

[Roseyposey]

It's been a long time since I thought about the whole suicide or murder thing? It's really interesting reading the whole thread, really gets you thinking.

[Roseyposey]

I couldn't definately say that I thought one thing or another after reading through all of the thread.

[Pachamama]

I think he killed himself. He had a history of OD´s and depression. I understand how awful a depressed person can feel. I lived with one for many, many years, and it is draining not only on the depressed person, but also those who love that person. I like Nivana`s music. A lot. But I guess I see things from Frances`viewpoint. My father did not commit suicide, but died when I was very young. I know what it`s like to be in school, and your whole class is making Father`s Day gifts for dad, but you dont have one. All the Christmases and birthdays without him. Your graduation and he`s not there. Your wedding day, the births of your children, etc, etc. Maybe he truly thought she would be better off without him, but I bet she doesnt think that. When a parent dies when you are young, you miss a part of yourself. In some ways, I am very different from my mother. I am much more social, I´m much more adaptable, I love to see new places, meet new people. Did I get that from my dad? Hard to say because I dont remember him. I hope that Frances is able to surround herself with positive, nurturing people, as it seems as she didnt get enough of that as a child. I hope she is strong enough to make the right decisions, and I hope she has a wonderful life.

[Mammy]

That was an awesome post, Pachamama! Very well said.

[Pachamama]

Thank you Mammy!

[JefeStone]

kurtsnotejpeg.jpg
practicejpeg.jpg

Its totally obvious Courtney wrote the last four lines of the suicide note. Why else would she have a Cobain handwriting practice sheet in her backpack.

[Roseyposey]

I keep forgetting you can't 'like' a post on here but I like yours pachmama x

[ichabodius]

What is the actual source of the handwriting practice sheet. All I can find is that Rosemary Carroll supposedly found it in a book that Courtney left at her residence.

[Jason]

I think it's Kurt's writing, maybe after the drugs started to kick in he wrote bigger and less neatly. I'm keeping it simple in my small little mind, depressed guy who wanted out got what he wanted.

[AlpineX2]

That's how I have always felt once the drugs kicked in he couldn't function as well and his handwriting got sloppy. Someone as jacked up as courtney could have never pulled off a murder for hire plot with someone so famous.

[Roseyposey]

Maybe he genuinely thought he was such a fuck up she would be better off without him in her life?

[atomicbettie]

I don't know what to think of this. I know the handwriting looks a little different, but how could have had enough time to write that out and shoot himself with that amount of drugs? What I've read is that even a hardcore addict would have been dead in seconds. I don't know. If C had anything to do with it she definitely had help. Then again lots of people who are depressed and especially addicted to drugs do believe the people will be better off without them. It's a sickness, they really think that. I guess I won't get too worked up about this since it's been so long. I'll have to stick with the conclusion they've given us (suicide) for these years. It's interesting to think about it though.

[Roseyposey]

It's been so long since I've looked into this but isn't the top part of the note supposed to have been written by Kurt before hand as a kind of retirement letter? He was obviously a prolific writer keeping diaries and such, there may have been other notes along the same lines but the last four 'added' lines make it out like it is a suicide note?

[GSBLTD]

I'm not a Kurt Cobain fan, in fact- I don't think I've ever heard his music since my tastes run elsewhere. However, I DO know a thing or two about suicides with rifles and/or shotguns. Does anyone know if Cobain was wearing SOCKS when his body was found? You see: when someone offs themself with a long gun and they can't reach the trigger - they use a TOE to do the deed while steadying the barrel with one or both hands. This is actually a pretty common method.

[luckyinlove]

he had lace up shoes on. http://nickdrakes.blogspot.com/2011/...02357f13262b11

[dstrattenfan]

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[hallowbones]

I don't know what I think about C.Love being involved. But.. I wonder this...

If she did kill him, or had a hand in killing him, or even added those last few lines on the suicide note... that woman has been so f00ked up so many times over the years, she's said stuff she doesn't recall saying the next day and given us so many, so so so many crotch shots and booby shots... you'd think she'd have slipped up at least once and told someone, "look I got away with killing Kurt Cobain."

Surely? And if she did kill him... that just hurts because.. as much as a junkie Kurt was.. he did love her - maybe not at the end but he did. Can you imagine the last few moments of his life, no matter how coherent he was, if it was HER personally or someone else and you know he was a paranoid guy he would've somewhere suspected it was C.Loves doing... the last moments of his life knowing that he just wanted to retire and divorce and be away.. and this is happening...

That might not make sense, but I've got a lot of thoughts on him tonight. Can't do much of anything else but.

[TeddyBear]

You've made complete sense hallowbones

[Mammy]

I think with as much heroine that he had in his system, he was probably too out of it to know what was going on if someone else killed him.

[Shejay]

I think Courtney is TOO stupid and TOO F'd up most the time to keep this a secret. If she were involved she would have hung herself a long time ago.

Kurt was just done. Drugs, Drepression and a Gun are a bad combo.

[michihunt]

I think the last 4 lines look different because he was emphasizing that part. KIND OF LIKE WHEN WE USE CAPS LOCK!!!
When you compare the letters with the other letters above, there are similarities. Perhaps he and Courtney had similar writing style. I know that my handwriting looks similar to others and vice versa.
I took a handwriting analysis course, and if you give any credence to that kind of thing, the manner in which he wrote is typical for someone under a lot of stress. The slants are not equal, spacing unequal, different sized letters, etc. What was in his mind was transposed to the paper.
It shows an unstable and frantic mind.

[DonnaMc]

However Kurt died, I believe Courtney was glad. She was the "greiving widow" and got everything anyway without having to go through a public divorce. My personal opinion is that she had a hand in it.

[Hockeywife]

I turned 27 this past August and have found myself fascinated with the 27 club. There is so much mystery around Kurt's death that it really intreigued me. I used to like Courtney but just cannot anymore as she cannot get her act together. I'm praying Frances turns out normal or semi normal. Although there's rumors of her plastic surgery as well. She's also supposedly engaged to a guy who looks a bit like her dad. http://m.people.com/newsitem.rbml?it...322%252C00.xml

I cannot help but feel in many ways Kurt was looking for someone or some reason to save himself. I believe he started the heroin for stomach problems and just became a junkie. When I look back now in so many pics he looks like a vulnerable boy almost childlike sometimes. But God he was beautiful.

[Mammy]

He definitely had eyes that looked sad and had a haunted look about them. A lot of people never expected Robert Downey, Jr. to get cleaned up and turn his life around, but he did and he gives a lot of the credit for that transformation to his loving, supportive wife. Maybe if Kurt had a loving, supportive wife instead of an unstable junkie who enjoyed his misery, he could have turned his life around, too. It really is sad.

[ichabodius]

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[DionysianSpirit]

remember the kurt & courtney conspiracy film, where her dad says he knows that courtney had kurt killed? this has always been sucha mystery to me, i am currently reading his journals~ most of it is just everyday stuff, nothing real interesting yet~

just a way to sell books. Courtney never had the intelligence, talent or skill necessary to kill Kurt. She was a second best, and although she was not depressed, she was very much money hungry. That probably led to Kurt's suicide alone, let it be the other reasons.

RIP Kurt.

[dstrattenfan]

found this really cool gif of Kurt and Francis