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Thread: My Lai Massacre

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshine74137 View Post
    My Husbend,22yrs my senior, served in Vietnam,I don't know a lot about that war and he won't talk about much else but the food. But his nightmares are horriable. I actually have to roll away fast or risk injury. I don't dare wake him up, tried that the first time and almost had my arm broken. After a particularly bad evening, he did say that he had participated in some autrocities. Just that once and only for a minute. unarmed villagers, wemon and kids. I just can't believe it this is the guy who also dresses up like a giant bunny and takes silver dollars to the kids in the hospital on Easter. I have never seen a hint of bigotry or prejudice by him he has all races on his staffs. This makes me think that your mentality changes when you get in a different situation, you have been programed to follow any orders of a superior. Not making excuses for it but I just can't reconcile the thought of those pictures and the guy I know.
    It is sad but there are times in our life when someone gives an order you have to carry it or or get shot or tried for something and go to prison.
    I know what Nam did to way too many people. I am sure your hubby has memories that he would rather forget. We lost many friends by suicide after they came home from there.
    There are attrocities in all wars. Innocent people die. My Lai was uncalled for but the people that ordered it walked away free and the men that followed orders paid for it.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppie View Post
    VietNam - bad times! Tore this country apart; we were lucky to have survived. As far as Calley, those of us who were around then, and some of us in the military, knew this kid was gonna pay!!!! His Capt denied giving him the order. There was also a very seasoned NCO who escaped Scot free. Anyone knows that NCO knew more than Calley ever would. I have always called the My Lai tragedy the classic SHIT TRICKLES DOWN story. Calley never stood a chance - The Capt and the NCO were both crapping on Calley's head. Someone had to pay and Calley was forced to write the check.
    Exactly and those that have never been in the military when they are in a war zone know nothing about what goes on. The brass and bars never pay for a damn thing,only the "depensable one" pay for it.

  3. #53
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    As a Sergeant with Special Ops in Peru in the late 70s early 80s I refused on several occasions to follow an illegal order that would have resulted in an atrocity or war crime.Once I offered to kill a CIA Advisor who was talking shit,he walked away and changed his pants.I told him I would not consider that a crime but doing humanity a favor.

  4. #54
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    Well done, Morto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morto View Post
    As a Sergeant with Special Ops in Peru in the late 70s early 80s I refused on several occasions to follow an illegal order that would have resulted in an atrocity or war crime.Once I offered to kill a CIA Advisor who was talking shit,he walked away and changed his pants.I told him I would not consider that a crime but doing humanity a favor.

  5. #55
    Just following orders my ass. Calley never showed an ounce of remorse for what he did. I don't care if you have a gun to your head, if you can gun down babies as they cling to their dead mothers and then show absolutely no remorse, you are a sick fuck. Calley was such a sorry excuse for a human, that before My Lai, his own men considered offing him.
    And he was by no means a poor scapegoat. He lived high on the hog. He got a free car, free hookers at his whim, and a brief stint of house arrest. We should all be so lucky as to live so well.

  6. #56
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    There's no draft today. Why would these people enlist if they know the dangers?? Are they just really patriotic??

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzycreamcheese View Post
    There's no draft today. Why would these people enlist if they know the dangers?? Are they just really patriotic??

    That is a good question, and that is the big difference in the Viet Nam war and the Iraq war. There may be many patriots, but most of today's soldiers need a job or are there for the promised education benefits. Whatever the reason, they do deserve our support.
    The Viet Nam era was a whole different thing. The majority of the servicemen were 19-year old draftees who couldn't afford to go to college. I have known of guys who had committed minor crimes and were offered either jail or the Army. You did your basic, your AIT, then did your year in Nam, then came home if you were still alive. If you enlisted, you may have that second year in Nam. None of the people I knew that served in that war were ever the same again. They deserved our support too, and were treated like crap for all they went through, and for most, it was not their choice to be there. It was another stupid unwinnable war, just like today. Needless loss of many young boys. They were just babies!
    I don't know what happened at Mai Lai, but I do know that many men did over there things they regretted for the rest of their lives.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOVSTORM View Post
    It is sad but there are times in our life when someone gives an order you have to carry it or or get shot or tried for something and go to prison.
    I know what Nam did to way too many people. I am sure your hubby has memories that he would rather forget. We lost many friends by suicide after they came home from there.
    There are attrocities in all wars. Innocent people die. My Lai was uncalled for but the people that ordered it walked away free and the men that followed orders paid for it.
    Actually Calley was the only one who did any time and he was pardoned. The killers walked free as well. There were young girls getting gang raped. They wern't ordered to rape 12 year old girls. These guys should have went to prison, if they have nightmares about the war they deserve it, they got off lucky.

  9. #59
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    Will there ever be a day, when Humans are better than that?

    Probably not, as Humans are greedy and lustful... and we rule the world.

    What was God thinking???

    Was He\She...thinking, at all?

    We humans are the gravest form of polloution in this world.

    Everything was in perfect balance...then we came along with our big brains, our greed, and our jealousies...

    Not much to be said beyond that...

    We suck, as creatures and keepers of this planet...

  10. #60
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    I guess so.

    I prefer to be "patriotic" sitting on my ass down in South Beach talking to all my "Death Hag" friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by suzycreamcheese View Post
    There's no draft today. Why would these people enlist if they know the dangers?? Are they just really patriotic??

  11. #61
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    The film "Casualties of War" was based on another true-life incident from the Vietnam era. Several soldiers raped and murdered a Vietnamese woman prisoner or refugee while the others hang around and did nothing. The old story, sticking up for the brethren, and one who had the nerve to tell afterward. It was one of many such terrible doings, the only wonder is that it got some media attention at the time. This incident was recounted (with many other edifying testimonies) in the classic "Against Our Will--- Men, Women, and Rape" by Susan Brownmiller--- if you can find a copy, you will learn much that is saddening about humanity in general, not just in war.
    The horrors done to some of the women and girls in My Lai before the soldiers killed the poor souls were perhaps not as hideous as Japan's Rape of Nanking 30 years earlier, but about as bad as serial killers tend to do, with mutilations, etc. And these were "normal" young American men we're talking about here. Scratch anyone's surface deep enough, and you will find terrible urges and capabilities.
    Last edited by Linnie; 07-01-2008 at 08:45 PM.

  12. #62
    It is nice to be able to discuss opposition to wars here without the jingoistic crap that you get so often, and that people understand that you can respect & support the troops without supporting the war or the administration that led us into it. It's the height of patriotism, in my opinion, to question authority. As Americans we are supposed to have the freedom to do so without fear of repercussion. I do agree that for some people the military seems like the best or even only choice; it's a job and you are given signing bonuses in some cases and of course the educational benefits. Recruitment is heavy in high schools especially in lower-income areas.

    My Lai was a horrible atrocity. There are similar and worse incidents that have occurred in times of war. Man is truly a savage beast and when given weapons, training and the freedom to wreak havoc, who knows what he will do? It's very frightening.
    People living deeply have no fear of death.
    ~Anais Nin


  13. #63
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    I was seven when this pictorial came out in Life, I cried for days, and didnt understand what I was looking at... My mother tried to explain but it changed me forever. At the time I lived in Berkeley and me and my mom attended many anti war protests. This was a pivotal story for me in childhood..

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by viridescence View Post
    It is nice to be able to discuss opposition to wars here without the jingoistic crap that you get so often, and that people understand that you can respect & support the troops without supporting the war or the administration that led us into it. It's the height of patriotism, in my opinion, to question authority. As Americans we are supposed to have the freedom to do so without fear of repercussion. I do agree that for some people the military seems like the best or even only choice; it's a job and you are given signing bonuses in some cases and of course the educational benefits. Recruitment is heavy in high schools especially in lower-income areas.

    My Lai was a horrible atrocity. There are similar and worse incidents that have occurred in times of war. Man is truly a savage beast and when given weapons, training and the freedom to wreak havoc, who knows what he will do? It's very frightening.
    I agree with all of the above. And I remember as a kid seeing those images and the one of the little girl running. You were seeing it on television, too. It really hit me hard, the memory of those images at the age I was.

  15. #65
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    The thing most shocking to me about this is how sanitized war is now when presented to the American public.

    They should show more, as apparently they did back during the Vietnam war.

    If people had to look at the reality of it over here there would be so much less support for unnecessary invasion and war. Maybe

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by southerngothic View Post
    Last I know, Calley was alive and well working at a jewelry store in Columbus, GA. I grew up a few mins from there.
    I'll have to look it up, but I remember reports (this was before I was born) of Calley being treated like a hero before/during/after his trial. He was given a free car (a mercedes maybe?) and provided with an endless supply of women.
    In 1985 I was working for a company in Sudbury Ma and I contratced with a company to send in a technician to service and calibrate all our precision scales and balances in the labs. They sent this nebishy sort of guy and I noticed his name tag said Medina. My Boss was a double duty career Marine Korea and Viet Nam. I said to the Tech. "You weren't Capt Medina were you and he visably winced and said yes. My boss who was there never said a word. He got up went into his office and never came out till after the guy left. We had a good relationship and he told war stories all the time but he refused to discuss this at all period. I think he could not justify it or explain it so he would not judge or speak ill of a comrade in arms.
    Regards,
    Mary

  17. #67
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    FIL was a Marine and was in both Cambodia and Vietnam. I have never asked and will never ask what it was like. He does not talk about it at all, ever.

    The things those men must have seen and done would destroy my mind. I couldn't handle participating in a war, it would shatter me. My Lai is beyond shameful, I can hardly look at those pictures.





    Warning: The following photos are graphic

    http://www.raseri.nu/Bilder/Historie/my_lai3.jpg

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngovidung/2885174506/
    Last edited by Nessa; 05-14-2009 at 05:06 PM.
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  18. #68
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    Here's a documentary from YouTube, 'Four Hours in My Lai'. Very good. It's in seven parts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYzb9DH7YAE
    The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.

    - R.H. Sin

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    What a mess

    Can you believe that the war ended almost fourty years ago?

    http://www.youtube.com/v/1gmgwx77osw" Great song, if you are from Australia you should really like it.
    Last edited by salvatore1989; 05-15-2010 at 04:41 PM.

  20. #70
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    My Lai Massacre

    I was sort of surprised there wasn't already a thread about this (or a general thread about the Vietnam War). While deeply disturbing, mired in controversy, and perhaps one of the darkest moments in U.S. military history, I believe it is important to not only be familiar with Vietnam as a whole, but also why what happened in My Lai happened. In March of 1968, US soldiers on a Viet Cong search and destroy mission, on orders from their commanding officer, killed from about 300 to more than 500 unarmed villagers. Many of the dead were the elderly, women, and children. Acts of rape and mutilation were committed. The photographs are ghastly. The massacre, which occurred over a few hours, destroyed many, many lives on both sides.

    If you're like me, you are too young to have been around during the conflict, and it was not mentioned in history class. (Personally, I learned a lot from Ken Burns' "Vietnam" documentary series on PBS.) Be aware that links include extremely graphic content.

    Wikipedia article: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

    "Four Hours in My Lai" documentary
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1NwnnLnvQYA

    New Yorker article 'The Scene of the Crime'
    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...e-of-the-crime



    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Nessa; 11-24-2017 at 10:29 PM. Reason: Link, photos
    The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.

    - R.H. Sin

  21. #71
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    Thanks for that link.
    I remember when it happened.
    Throwing feces.

    Just. Don't. Do. It.

  22. #72
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    The new PBS series on the Viet Nam War is very good. Goes into the Political and Leadership mindset well.
    "What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others" Pericles

  23. #73
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    It was very good, all 18 hours of it! I learned a lot!
    The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.

    - R.H. Sin

  24. #74
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    Let's take a look at a few facts, shall we? Any generation which is involved in fighting a war, that war is "HELL" for that generation. War does not look like the "Combat" tv series or ANY of the movies. A grenade blows up in the midst of soldiers and they fall backward and forward, right, sure. A gunshot wound makes a well defined red spot on the skin both in and out. Another fabrication. A pilot gets shot down and what you see is a blood stained face. Sure. War IS hell. War is killing. Civilians get killed on BOTH sides.

    Secondly, not all VN veterans came back as crazed animals. Of all the guys I know who returned, only one is what we can define as "a bit different". However, he was that way before he went in. A soldier's job is to kill. No matter how much of a "bad ass" you think you are on the streets before you went in, you will not be "right at home" killing the enemy. Of all the guys I know who were over there, some truths were obvious. Guys who did their job never talk about it. Guys who come out bragging they did "this" and they did "that" and who can claim right to the man how many enemy they killed never, ever did what they claimed to have done. War is hell. The sights, the sounds, the smells, the fear, the anxiety...you don't want reminded of it, even by your own mind!

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleanskull View Post
    The new PBS series on the Viet Nam War is very good. Goes into the Political and Leadership mindset well.
    I so agree.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

  26. #76
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    "Guys who come out bragging they did "this" and they did "that" and who can claim right to the man how many enemy they killed never, ever did what they claimed to have done. War is hell."

    Exactly!, I play an mmorpg game and some reason players on there like to say they just got home from over there, and they talk about things, I said um if you really did just back, you really aren't allowed to give details of where you were and what you did, and not only that but from your bragging about how many you killed or what you saw, I highly doubt you were over there, I had a few that I knew were in the war that did pm and say thank you to me for calling them out.
    An Uncle of mine served in Nam, He did tell me he was a "Tunnel Rat" and he wouldn't ever talk about anything, I asked once and he said you don't want to know, and I remember him on a few occasions waking up screaming.
    "My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~
    And It Harm None Do What ye will. Wise Intelligent Teacher Courageous Healer. #METOO

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