The Columbine Tragedy

**heaven01uk** · 06-18-2009, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by hoxharding

I had no idea he wrote a book. He is the one who Dylan gave the website address to.

Yeah he was I wonder if Eric ever knew that?.
I only knew Brooks wrote a book because some mentioned it earlier in the thread I think.

**michellezearing** · 06-21-2009, 07:26 AM

I'm about halfway through it already and I really am enjoying it. I am tending to get the opinion that Eric really changed Dylan and made him a part of the shooting by convincing him it had to be done, Because I think Dylan on his own would never of done that had it not been for Eric.

Has anyone read the Jeff Kass book? I'm wondering if it's worth getting after already reading the Brooks Brown book...

**MaxyMillions** · 06-21-2009, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by michellezearing

I'm about halfway through it already and I really am enjoying it. I am tending to get the opinion that Eric really changed Dylan and made him a part of the shooting by convincing him it had to be done, Because I think Dylan on his own would never of done that had it not been for Eric.

Has anyone read the Jeff Kass book? I'm wondering if it's worth getting after already reading the Brooks Brown book...

Yes, the Kass book is worth getting. I got it, Brooks' book and Dave Cullen's book, and the overall picture was quite comprehensive.

**racingfan** · 06-21-2009, 09:11 AM

My apologies if this has been asked already, but are the leaked photos of the Columbine victims still out there? I've seen the Klebold and Harris ones, but that's it. I know more were leaked though, according to the local newspaper in Co.

**Lita** · 06-21-2009, 10:09 AM

As far as I know, the victim photos never made it online.

**hoxharding** · 06-21-2009, 12:07 PM

Just to let you know- Dave Cullen is on Facebook

**heaven01uk** · 06-21-2009, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by KCSunshine

I'm his friend!

I couldn't find him, I'm useless

.

**MaxyMillions** · 06-21-2009, 06:08 PM

Don't forget to set those tivos for Intervention on A&E tomorrow night, featuring Jason, "the Columbine bully."

**heaven01uk** · 06-21-2009, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by MaxyMillions

Don't forget to set those tivos for Intervention on A&E tomorrow night, featuring Jason, "the Columbine bully."

Cheers for the reminder, I'll be watching it online.

**heaven01uk** · 06-21-2009, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by KCSunshine

www.facebook.com/cullendave

Thanking you very muchly

.

**c l p** · 07-07-2009, 05:52 PM

i get so tired of people making excuses for the way they choose to act. everyone in school at one time or another gets picked on. a lot of kids died because of a couple of punks wanted to go down in history and always be remembered. well they got what they wanted.

**Hobbes12** · 07-09-2009, 09:38 PM

History makers...

**mel306** · 10-10-2009, 03:47 PM

One of their moms is talking in this month's O magazine. Here is a story from the NY Daily News.

**Bassetlover09** · 10-10-2009, 04:53 PM

You know...I could not even imagine how those poor students and teachers felt...hiding in those classrooms...just imagining those two coming through the door...good gosh how terrifying it must have been.

**Carrera_3.2** · 10-12-2009, 06:48 PM

Has anyone on this thread ever posted some different positioned, Hi-Def photos of the pair on the library floor? I will admit that I have not read this entire thread to check but the photos that I did find in the thread were not as clear or as graphic as the ones that I am talking about. If someone that has been following this thread from the beginning, would certainly remember these photos as they are extremely graphic, and if they are posted already, I won't bother to post the ones that I have. Carrera.

**RubySlippers** · 10-12-2009, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Carrera_3.2

Has anyone on this thread ever posted some different positioned, Hi-Def photos of the pair on the library floor? I will admit that I have not rear this entire thread to check but the photos that I did find in the thread were not as clear or as graphic as the ones that I am talking about. If someone that has been following this thread from the beginning, would certainly remember these photos as they are extremely graphic, and if they are posted already, I won't bother to post the ones that I have. Carrera.

i have seen some and they are all pretty standard. i haven't seen any others besides these. WARNING - OOGEY.
http://www.markallencam.com/ericanddylan1.jpg

**Nicksmorbidfascination** · 10-12-2009, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Carrera_3.2

Has anyone on this thread ever posted some different positioned, Hi-Def photos of the pair on the library floor? I will admit that I have not read this entire thread to check but the photos that I did find in the thread were not as clear or as graphic as the ones that I am talking about. If someone that has been following this thread from the beginning, would certainly remember these photos as they are extremely graphic, and if they are posted already, I won't bother to post the ones that I have. Carrera.

Post please!!

**Carrera_3.2** · 10-12-2009, 08:52 PM

Hopefully these will come out OK. Carrera.

http://webmail.aol.com/28200/aol/en-...dMail&partId=4

http://webmail.aol.com/28200/aol/en-...dMail&partId=5

**RubySlippers** · 10-12-2009, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Carrera_3.2

Hopefully these will come out OK. Carrera.

http://webmail.aol.com/28200/aol/en-...dMail&partId=4

http://webmail.aol.com/28200/aol/en-...dMail&partId=5

That isn't going to work... you have to have a AOL account. I have a link above as well.

**Carrera_3.2** · 10-12-2009, 08:55 PM

On one of the photos, it can be easily seen that one has the entire top of his head removed, and chunks of bone, scalp, and brain tissues spattered all over the bookcase and the floor. Carrera.

**Nicki** · 10-12-2009, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by mel306

One of their moms is talking in this month's O magazine. Here is a story from the NY Daily News.

Very sad...There was so much talk about how the parents screwed up. But I honestly think it Can possibly happen in anybodys family. Apparently Dylan was a pretty nice kid until his teens when he started withdrawing. The way I see it his mother in some small way is a victim too. She said some of the parents called her and expressed their sympathy to her as well. Bottom Line....What a nightmare!

**djdeath-hag** · 10-12-2009, 11:36 PM

I watched the segment on Nightline tonight, which was prompted by Dylan's mother's interview in "O"; I'm sure that I'm an oddity, in that I've always felt bad for the parents & extended families of Dylan & Eric....they also experienced loss too. I know that there has been much evidence about how & why the parents' of the perps should have known what was to happen & that they should have had the insight & means to prevent the tragedy, yet I believe that most parents want to believe that their sons and/or daughters are incapable of killing innocents.

What Harris & Klebold did is horroble....yet they both left behind families who are as much victims as their targets. It is impossible for me to wrap my brain around the experiences of parent's of killers....or suicides.....and even moreso those who are both.

**Nessa** · 10-13-2009, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by RubySlippers

i have seen some and they are all pretty standard. i haven't seen any others besides these. WARNING - OOGEY.
http://www.markallencam.com/ericanddylan1.jpg

Are they the same ones as on my site? On the library floor? I don't know if I need to see Eric's head more clearly.

**SomeChick** · 10-13-2009, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by djdeath-hag

I watched the segment on Nightline tonight, which was prompted by Dylan's mother's interview in "O"; I'm sure that I'm an oddity, in that I've always felt bad for the parents & extended families of Dylan & Eric....they also experienced loss too. I know that there has been much evidence about how & why the parents' of the perps should have known what was to happen & that they should have had the insight & means to prevent the tragedy, yet I believe that most parents want to believe that their sons and/or daughters are incapable of killing innocents.

What Harris & Klebold did is horroble....yet they both left behind families who are as much victims as their targets. It is impossible for me to wrap my brain around the experiences of parent's of killers....or suicides.....and even moreso those who are both.

You're not an oddity, Dennis. I'd bet there are plenty of people who feel that way. In fact, I'd say you have common sense.

Edit:

Are they the same ones as on my site? On the library floor? I don't know if I need to see Eric's head more clearly.

The one Ruby posted does live up to her warning, so I think it is.

**Lisamarie** · 10-13-2009, 04:07 AM

I wonder who shot themselves first ..also the one guys brains are all over the other guys leg....ewww.....

**RubySlippers** · 10-13-2009, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Nessa

Are they the same ones as on my site? On the library floor? I don't know if I need to see Eric's head more clearly.

Yes, they are. It is pretty awful.

**RubySlippers** · 10-13-2009, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by SomeChick

The one Ruby posted does live up to her warning, so I think it is.

It is the only one that I know of. I think Carrera wants to see something more crisp and clear. I for one, just think it is completely heart breaking. How much more brain detail do you want. It is obvious his skull is all over the place.

**DietCokeofEvil** · 10-13-2009, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by djdeath-hag

I watched the segment on Nightline tonight, which was prompted by Dylan's mother's interview in "O"; I'm sure that I'm an oddity, in that I've always felt bad for the parents & extended families of Dylan & Eric....they also experienced loss too. I know that there has been much evidence about how & why the parents' of the perps should have known what was to happen & that they should have had the insight & means to prevent the tragedy, yet I believe that most parents want to believe that their sons and/or daughters are incapable of killing innocents.

What Harris & Klebold did is horroble....yet they both left behind families who are as much victims as their targets. It is impossible for me to wrap my brain around the experiences of parent's of killers....or suicides.....and even moreso those who are both.

I'm totally with you on this one. Kids can be experts at hiding things from parents. Not only do their parents have to deal with the loss of their child, but also the knowledge of the murder, fear and terror caused by the hands of their child.

**lab_rat** · 10-13-2009, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by DietCokeofEvil

I'm totally with you on this one. Kids can be experts at hiding things from parents. Not only do their parents have to deal with the loss of their child, but also the knowledge of the murder, fear and terror caused by the hands of their child.

My heart broke for Dylan's mother.

**kingoutlaw** · 10-13-2009, 12:56 PM

is there full versons of the basement tapes floating around on the web

**heaven01uk** · 10-13-2009, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by kingoutlaw

is there full versons of the basement tapes floating around on the web

No the basement tapes where they are talking about their plans have been ordered sealed for 20 years.

**Impatience** · 10-13-2009, 01:44 PM

should the Harris' and Klebold parents taken a closer look at their sons? Probably. Because their children were responsible for such an unthinkable act, should they be shunned? No. But I didn't lose a child to those two men. There was no way for the Harris' and Klebold's to express their grief for their children other than privately. Very privately. I think that this was an isolated incident. There was nothing to compare it to. I'm sure the parents didn't think that their children would go and shoot up a school. It's not like incidents comparable to Columbine happen every day. I just don't know what I would do on either side of a situation like that. It is utterly and totally unique to most people's experiences.

**heaven01uk** · 10-13-2009, 01:55 PM

I think Eric's father was wrong with how he dealt with everything that happened with Brooks Brown. Obviously the Browns fears over Eric came true but I also think when the Browns made reports to the police and they didn't follow them up that the police were in the wrong for ignoring them.
It must be hard when the 2 people who are 100% responsible are dead and you can't direct your anger at them or let them know how you feel. I would assume the anger has to go somewhere so they picked the closest people to the killers, the family.

**c l p** · 10-13-2009, 03:12 PM

i think this is an awful thing that happened. but it is easy to blame the parents when these boys understood the difference between right an wrong.they made there choice. but there is a problem with bullys and you have to find the kids that will snap befor they do. this will not be the last time this happens.

**motherogod** · 10-13-2009, 08:05 PM

I too feel for the parents. Ugh, when something so incomprehensible happens, the only way for many to deal with it is to find someone to blame and unfortunately the parents are the ones many have blamed for this. Those boys may have had mental issues such as depression and antisocial tendencies, but I believe they were fully capable to make the decision to NOT go through with their plan. Those two carry the responsibility, and they chose to carry it to their graves.

I think it'd be fascinating to talk with this mom.

**Nicki** · 10-14-2009, 09:59 AM

Columbine parents praise essay by mom of shooter

AP – FILE -This 1998 file yearbook photo from Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo. shows Dylan Klebold. …

By KRISTEN WYATT, Associated Press Writer Kristen Wyatt, Associated Press Writer – Tue Oct 13, 9:45 pm ET
DENVER – Parents and survivors of the 1999 massacre at Columbine High School are saying good things about an essay released Tuesday by the mother of shooter Dylan Klebold.
Susan Klebold made the most detailed public remarks by any parent of the two Columbine killers in an essay published in O, The Oprah Magazine. She said in the essay she had "no inkling" her son was suicidal or depressed.
The essay sparked strong emotions for Connie Michalik, whose son, Richard Castaldo, was shot and partially paralyzed in the rampage. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 others before killing themselves.
The shooters' parents have said little in public since the massacre. They gave depositions in a lawsuit filed by victims' families, but a judge in 2007 ordered those depositions sealed for 20 years after the case was settled out of court.
Survivors and their families have been left wondering about the boys' parents in the decade since the shootings.
"You know, I always wondered how she felt and what she went through. 'Cause I know I went through a living hell, and I was always sure she did, too," Michalik told The Associated Press.
Michalik, who has never met Susan Klebold, said reading the essay answered some of her questions about the Klebold family.
"I applaud her for the courage to talk about this," Michalik said Tuesday.
In the essay, Susan Klebold described the day of the shooting. She at first feared Dylan had been shot at school, not that he was one of the perpetrators.
Susan Klebold said the family was evacuated from their home the afternoon of the massacre because authorities feared even Dylan's residence may have been rigged to explode. Still, she said, it took months for relatives to accept that the quiet boy who loved origami and Legos was to blame for the violence.
"We didn't know that he and Eric had assembled an arsenal of explosives and guns," Susan Klebold wrote. "We believed his participation in the massacre was accidental or that he had been coerced. We believed that he did not intend to hurt anyone."
The magazine released excerpts from the essay last week and published the full text Tuesday.
A magazine spokeswoman said Susan Klebold has turned down several interview requests over the years but agreed several months ago to share an essay. There were no plans for her to appear on the show.
In an introduction to the essay, Oprah Winfrey told readers, "Since the day her son participated in the most devastating high school shooting America has ever seen, I have wanted to sit down with Susan Klebold to ask her the questions we've all wanted to ask — starting with, 'How did you not see it coming?' and ending with 'How did you survive?'"
A spokeswoman for Susan Klebold has said there would be no further comment.
One of the shooting's survivors, Krystal Miller, said Tuesday she has long had questions for the Klebolds but understood their silence.
"Over the years I would've loved to hear something," said Miller, whose maiden name was Krystal Woodman. "But it sounds like she is still just reeling from it and processing it. So how is someone supposed to come out and give answers when they're still trying to figure it out themselves?"

**Miho** · 10-14-2009, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by RubySlippers

How much more brain detail do you want. It is obvious his skull is all over the place.

Plenty of room for Beanie Babies

**Malindak2** · 10-15-2009, 08:13 AM

I'm new to the forum, but not the case. Just one question. How long as the teacher, Patty (who made the 911 call) in the library for? I know some students ran out after the shootings in the library. Is this when she left too?

**RubySlippers** · 10-15-2009, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Malindak2

I'm new to the forum, but not the case. Just one question. How long as the teacher, Patty (who made the 911 call) in the library for? I know some students ran out after the shootings in the library. Is this when she left too?

She and 3 other teachers stayed put until the SWAT team cleared the library..
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/...612tape1.shtml

**Malindak2** · 10-15-2009, 05:14 PM

Good Article. Thank you for posting it for me.

**Elizabeth** · 10-15-2009, 05:52 PM

I read the "O" article, and am disappointed with it. Why? Although I think Susan Klebold is being very sincere and honest about her pain, I find her going on and on about how Dylan committed suicide very close-minded of her. That is a lot of what the article is about--that Dylan was in such a state that he committed suicide, and oh, yes, he also killed a number of other children, and she is really sorry about that.

Yes, her son was depressed and suicidal. But he didn't just merely commit suicide--he also killed innocent human beings and that doesn't make him merely a victim of "suicide". He was a *Murderer*. He planned and carried out one of the most horrible things I have ever heard of. That is something Susan in her grief, does not fully address. Are his actions her fault in some way? As parents I am sure we ask ourselves that daily. I have no answer for that. But to gloss over, even remotely, that her son was anything but a killer is something I found highly distasteful.

IMHO.....

**heaven01uk** · 10-16-2009, 02:46 AM

I don't know maybe its her way of coping. Trying to deal with the fact that not only did your youngest son commit suicide but he also helped murder 13 people and injure many more must be extremely rough.
Maybe its hard for her to make the connection between the Dylan she knew and saw everyday and the Dylan that killed those people. She lost her son and at the same time lost the person she thought her son was.
Thats something hopefully all of us will never have to go through, I for one do not reckon I could cope with it.

**John Connor** · 10-16-2009, 03:48 AM

An interesting bit of trivia: Jason B. from Intervention, a heroin addict, was one of the people on the White Hat list, Harris and Klebold's list of bullies they wanted to kill. Imagine carrying that around? He admits he was a bully in school and after seeing his father I can understand it.

**Malindak2** · 10-16-2009, 06:59 PM

I saw that episode of Intervention. I don't remember much about it but now that you say that about him being on the list, I remember that part.

I was in Wal Mart today and tried reading the article in O. But I have a 3 yr old who wasn't having it. Does anyone have the full article to post?

**cindyt** · 10-16-2009, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by djdeath-hag

I watched the segment on Nightline tonight, which was prompted by Dylan's mother's interview in "O"; I'm sure that I'm an oddity, in that I've always felt bad for the parents & extended families of Dylan & Eric....they also experienced loss too. I know that there has been much evidence about how & why the parents' of the perps should have known what was to happen & that they should have had the insight & means to prevent the tragedy, yet I believe that most parents want to believe that their sons and/or daughters are incapable of killing innocents.

What Harris & Klebold did is horroble....yet they both left behind families who are as much victims as their targets. It is impossible for me to wrap my brain around the experiences of parent's of killers....or suicides.....and even moreso those who are both.

I feel the same way you do, Dennis. Hell, I did things my parents never knew about, not ever. Not on the same scale as this, of course, but the point is parents are not aware of everything their children are up to.

**Finnegan** · 10-16-2009, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by RubySlippers

It is the only one that I know of. I think Carrera wants to see something more crisp and clear. I for one, just think it is completely heart breaking. How much more brain detail do you want. It is obvious his skull is all over the place.

I want more brain detail.

**Carrera_3.2** · 10-16-2009, 07:42 PM

For RubySlippers, "It is the only one that I know of. I think Carrera wants to see something more crisp and clear. I for one, just think it is completely heart breaking. How much more brain detail do you want. It is obvious his skull is all over the place."

I was inquiring to check and see if someone had any of the Hi-Def, photos of the pair, and I was basically asking if anyone had already posted them, and if they had not been posted, I was going to post them, because I have already had the "HD" photos for many years. I was NOT, asking about wanting to see the higher quality photos for myself, I was just wanting to see if anyone was wanting to see the better quality photos, as I already had the better photos. I was trying to find out if anyone wanted to see the "HD" photos. If anyone does want to see the better photos, you can email through the FAD email, not a PM, unless you are including your email address in the PM. Carrera.

**RubySlippers** · 10-18-2009, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Finnegan

I want more brain detail.

bahahahahaha....you are baaaad.

**RubySlippers** · 10-18-2009, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Carrera_3.2

For RubySlippers, "It is the only one that I know of. I think Carrera wants to see something more crisp and clear. I for one, just think it is completely heart breaking. How much more brain detail do you want. It is obvious his skull is all over the place."

I was inquiring to check and see if someone had any of the Hi-Def, photos of the pair, and I was basically asking if anyone had already posted them, and if they had not been posted, I was going to post them, because I have already had the "HD" photos for many years. I was NOT, asking about wanting to see the higher quality photos for myself, I was just wanting to see if anyone was wanting to see the better quality photos, as I already had the better photos. I was trying to find out if anyone wanted to see the "HD" photos. If anyone does want to see the better photos, you can email through the FAD email, not a PM, unless you are including your email address in the PM. Carrera.

If you had just posted, " Has anyone seen HD pictures of the crime scene? If you haven't, I have those images..." yada, yada,yada, I would have understood your intent more clearly. Your posts were implicative of asking to see them or if there were any out there as a general question.
Miscommunication, that's all.

**Lita** · 10-19-2009, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by djdeath-hag

I watched the segment on Nightline tonight, which was prompted by Dylan's mother's interview in "O"; I'm sure that I'm an oddity, in that I've always felt bad for the parents & extended families of Dylan & Eric....they also experienced loss too. I know that there has been much evidence about how & why the parents' of the perps should have known what was to happen & that they should have had the insight & means to prevent the tragedy, yet I believe that most parents want to believe that their sons and/or daughters are incapable of killing innocents.

What Harris & Klebold did is horroble....yet they both left behind families who are as much victims as their targets. It is impossible for me to wrap my brain around the experiences of parent's of killers....or suicides.....and even moreso those who are both.

You're not an oddity. I think a lot of people feel bad for the parents/families of the shooters. They may have it worse off. Not only did their sons/family members kill innocent students, they also killed themselves. It's a double whammy for those families. They have to deal with the suicide and the murders their family member committed.

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