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Thread: The Columbine Tragedy

  1. #351
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    Bullied or not?

    I think it all comes down to who is asked about the climate at Columbine. Brooks Brown claims their was (his book further details what he and both Eric, Dylan were exposed to). Also, on another site, the sister of Joe Stair (friend to Eric and Dylan), who was in the library during the shooting and survived unharmed, had this to say about the subject just recently:

    MnM wrote:Heh. Your brother sounds like a cool guy.

    I'm kind of curious though, what exactly did he do to protect you from bullying? And what kinds of bullying did you personally witness?


    Y'know, I actually don't know what he did. I didn't even think, "Wait a minute, I'm not getting bullied." He just said he was able to keep people from having me push a penny down the hall with my nose =P He never said HOW he did that, though.

    I didn't witness any pushing or shoving (or penny-pushing) myself, but there was just this general environment that the jocks were superior to everyone else.



    Quote:As for yourself, why did people ignore you? (I can definitely relate to that- my high school was just like that. Got shitted upon in Jr. High, basically ignored at my first school. My 2nd high school's a completely different story from either of those though)


    I really don't know. Maybe 'cause I was quiet and kept to myself (though I was also that way in middle school and I wouldn't relive that for anything). I don't know, and frankly I don't care! I'll take getting ignored over getting teased/bullied any day!

    _________________

    BTW, her brother, committed suicide not too long ago

    Also, in their writings and in the basement tapes, one reason given for this shooting was to enact "Revenge in the commons"...the commons was another name for the cafeteria. What this revenge could have been centred on was an incident where both Dylan and Eric were bombarded with ketchup coated tampons being flung onto them. Another possible reason could be related to their initial plans of blowing up the cafeteria which we all know now did not come to fruition.
    Last edited by Cangirl58; 04-30-2009 at 04:48 PM.
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  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCSunshine View Post
    My concern is, if the central motivation for the attack was revenge for bullying, wouldn't the attack have been more targeted? Wouldn't they have sought out the people who were behind the bullying, rather than punishing everyone? I'm reading Cullen's book at the moment and he makes a very cogent argument for Eric being a psychopath and Dylan being a depressive. I don't deny for a second that bullying was involved, but there had to be something else about these two boys that provoked such an extreme reaction.

    However, I can understand where the Brown family are coming from. If an anti-bullying message is one of the few positives we can take from Columbine, should we dispel that theory, even if it's not true? I'm also a little confused by the Brown family's motivations, as Brooks himself was mercilessly targeted by Eric Harris. It seems strange they would be so passionate about proving Eric and Dylan were unfairly picked on, when Eric himself made their son's life a living hell.

    The Brown family were undeniably affected by this tragedy, and had some good information to add to the proceeding arguments, but I feel they want to make themselves more pivotal to the entire event than they actually are. Yes, they knew both the boys, and tried to draw attention to the issue of Eric before the tragedy occurred, but I think they need to realise they may not have ALL the answers. I think the only people who truly know their motivations were Eric and Dylan themselves. All the rest of us can do is speculate really.
    I've wondered the same thing, KC. I would have guessed they would have targeted something like the athletic facilities, or a "jock" hangout, if there was one. Ending up in the library seems a little ironic to me.

    I'm in the middle of the Jeff Kass book, read Brooks Brown's and have Dave Cullen's next, but I expect that the only "final" answers died with Eric, Dylan, and their victims.

  3. #353
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    I think that Eric and Dylan were also having Nazi butt sex...
    <a href=http://www.findadeath.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3176&dateline=1396157644 target=_blank>http://www.findadeath.com/forum/imag...ine=1396157644</a>
    Dr. Wigglesworth Hijacks Andy Griffith Broadcast via WPXC in Jacksonville, Florida --->
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9W4v7vNfFI&list=UU0Lga9ep13H65gs7nmwLdCQ

    "Never go to bed with anger in your heart." ~ Seagorath

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seagorath View Post
    I think that Eric and Dylan were also having Nazi butt sex...

    ROFL!!!! My imagination runs wild, but I'd like to hear yours, Sea!!

  5. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seagorath View Post
    I think that Eric and Dylan were also having Nazi butt sex...

    Thats the best kind

    "Yeah, right. You just don't want to admit you take it up the tailpipe. LOL" - Mammy

  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cangirl58 View Post
    I think it all comes down to who is asked about the climate at Columbine. Also, in their writings and in the basement tapes, one reason given for this shooting was to enact "Revenge in the commons"...the commons was another name for the cafeteria. What this revenge could have been centred on was an incident where both Dylan and Eric were bombarded with ketchup coated tampons being flung onto them. Another possible reason could be related to their initial plans of blowing up the cafeteria which we all know now did not come to fruition.
    I agree. From what I've read so far, not only Eric and Dylan were harrassed. The so-called "lower" students got it pretty bad while it sounds like faculty watched with a "boys will be boys" mentality. It's also mentioned that some teachers would also pick on some of the "lower" social status students. There's also a minor incident recorded in one of the "basement tapes." Eric, Dylan, and another boy named Mike were walking down the hall. Dylan was holding the video camera. Four boys, identified as "jocks" in the book I'm reading walk by. Eric noticably starts walking faster with his head down. As the four jocks get to Dylan, two go on either side of him and hit him with both of their elbows. The video-camera swings about 65 degrees. I've also read interviews conducted as soon as 2004 that suggest bullying is back at Columbine and "worse than ever." Although, it's hard to know how it can be categorized as "worse" when it would seem that none of the students there now were there when Dylan and Eric were.

  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linnie View Post
    April IS the cruelest month....

    Never knew that about April. Interesting.

    Has anyone noticed that July seems to be a "death month" for
    celebrities?
    I noticed that. I mean not every famous person dies in July but
    it sure seems like many celebrities do.

  8. #358
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    Eric had two different colored eyes, I remember reading it in his autopsy report, also different lighting or clothing can make the eye color appear different. I always thought Dylan seemed the more dead-eyed of the two.
    Quote Originally Posted by metaphoria View Post
    Eric's expression and eyes look completely twisted. I find it hard to believe that someone missed his menacing looks, or feel his sinister energy. He completely makes me nervous looking at him. Yet I am intrigued. Must be the death hag in me.

    And have you ever noticed, he tried keeping his eyes covered. I have seen tons of pictures with him in sunglasses. He must have known.

    Also, did his eyes change color? Some pictures have him with blue eyes, the other with very dark, almost black, if not so.

    I have recently become hyper-interested in this case. When Columbine happened, I was overseas and not connected to the internet. Recently, I stumbled upon the pictures of them dead in the library and started researching this story like mad. It was such a tragedy and I cannot fathom how 2 people could do such a thing to innocent people.
    Are you a badfish too?

  9. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCSunshine View Post
    I'm looking forward to reading the Kass book after Cullen's. Would be interested to know what you think. I read the Brown book and I really liked it, but at the time it was the only publication I could find about Columbine, and in hindsight it wasn't very objective (understandably).

    You're right about it making more sense that they would target jocks if it was a retribution killing. They planned to kill everyone- they didn't even care if it was their friends. I think Brooks was spared because Eric felt more powerful granting Brooks his life (something Brooks would have to live with forever) then killing him. It made Eric feel god-like, and it made Brooks know his mercy.
    I'm really liking the Kass book-very interesting.. I'd actually started the Cullen book, but it seemed to have some contradictory info to Brown's book, so thought would go in different direction with Kass.

    As much damage as they did do, it seems like a bust, a final disappointment compared to what they had planned to do. I think they got kind of bored in the library in the end and killed themselves, b/c they'd run out of ideas. Pathetic losers to the very end.

  10. #360
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    One segment of the infamous basement tapes transcripts....

    I had to split this into 2 posts.....

    March 15, 1999
    Evidence item #265
    Pieced together from the Columbine Report and Time's article dated 12-20-1999 (hard copy and online version).

    Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold are sitting in the Harris home basement-level family room. Eric is sitting on the couch and Dylan's sitting in a chair nearby. They're drinking from a Jack Daniels bottle, which Eric points out. The boys begin to discuss a number of topics; they speak of their hope that the videos they're making will one day be shown all over the world, when their "masterpiece" is done and everyone wants to know why they did it.

    Dylan: "I'd like to make a thank you to Mark John Doe and Phil John Doe. I hope you don't get fucked." (Eric laughs. Dylan continues.) "We used them. They had no clue... Don't blame them. And don't fucking arrest them. Don't arrest any of our friends, or family members or our co-workers. They had no fucking clue. Don't arrest anyone, because they didn't have a fucking clue. If it hadn't been them, it would've been someone else over 21."

    They mention the time a clerk from Green Mountain Guns called Eric's home. Eric's dad, Wayne Harris, answered the phone.

    When the clerk told him "Hey, your clips are in." Wayne - who owned guns himself - told the clerk he hadn't ordered any clips. Eric said his father never asked whether the caller even had the right phone number. Eric says if etiher the clerk or his father had asked just one question, "we would have been fucked.".

    Dylan: "We wouldn't be able to do what we're going to do."

    They then talk about Brandon Larson and how "you will find his body". The boys talk about the large propane bombs they plan to use on the unsuspecting students in the school cafeteria. They discuss bombs and two bags of "propane and napalm", and mention Mr. Stevens and the shotgun.

    "We're proving ourselves," they tell the camera and go on to discuss their philosphies. Eric says he isn't spending much time with his family, so that there won't be any "bonding" and "this won't be harder to do".

    Eric: "I'm sorry I have so much rage, but you put it on me."

    Eric then complains about his father and how his family had to move five times. He says he always had to be the new kid in school, and was always at the bottom of the "food chain", and had no chance to earn any respect from his peers as he always had to "start out at the bottom of the ladder". He hated the way people made fun of him: "my face, my hair, my shirts." He's wearing a t-shirt that has the words "Wilder Wein" printed on it -- he references the shirt several times during the video but never explains what it means. [Wilder Wein is a song written by Rammstein.]

    Eric: "More rage. More rage." (motions with his hands for emphasis) "Keep building it on."

    Dylan: "If you could see all the anger I've stored over the past four fucking years..."

    Dylan then recalls how popular and athletic his older brother Byron was and how he constantly "ripped" on him, as did his brother's friends. According to Dylan, with the exception of his parents, his extended family treated him like the runt of the litter.

    Dylan: "You made me what I am. You added to the rage."

    Dylan says that as far back as the Foothills Day Care center he hated the "stuck-up" kids who he felt hated him. "Being shy didn't help. I'm going to kill you all. You've been giving us shit for years."

    Dylan: "Fuck you Walsh."

    The boys go on to discuss Walsh patrolling Deer Creek (Deputy Tim Walsh primarly works the south end of Jefferson County). The teens then talk about how there's "a month and a half left". They mention Green Mountain Guns again and how they phoned the house, leaving a message on the answering machine: "Your clips are in".

    Dylan and Eric brag about hiding their tools of death -- and about the close calls along the way. Eric shows the camera a black tackle box with his bomb-making equipment stowed inside. They boast about concocting their plan under the noses of unsuspecting parents and friends.

    Dylan recalls a time when his parents walked into his bedroom while he was trying on his trenchcoat to see if it would hide his sawed-off shotgun. "They didn't even know it was there."

    Eric tells about a day he was going to go shooting in the mountains. He had his shotgun in a gym bag: it was in his "terrorist bag, sticking out". When he walked by his mother, she saw the butt of the gun but she assumed it was nothing more sinister than his BB gun. Fooling people was a point of pride for both boys, one they gloat about during the video-taping.

    Eric: "I could convince them that I'm going to climb Mount Everest, or I have a twin brother growing out of my back. I can make you believe anything."

    The subject shifts and they begin talking about several people they know. They make a comment about Dustin Harris (or Harrison), and how "everything you say is pointless."

    Eric: "Shut the fuck up, Nick, you laugh too much! And those two girls sitting next to you, they probably want you to shut the fuck up, too! Jesus! Rachel and Jen.. and.. whatever."

    Dylan: "I don't like you, Rachel and Jen, you're stuck up little bitches, you're fucking little.. Christian, Godly little whores!"
    [Hear this and the line above]

    Eric: "Yeah.. 'I love Jesus! I love Jesus!' -- shut the fuck up!"

    Dylan: "What would Jesus do? What the fuck would I do..?" (he acts like he's shooting the camera with his hand, with sound to accompany it)

    Eric: "I would shoot you in the motherfucking head! Go Romans! Thank God they crucified that asshole."
    [Hear the above 3 lines]

    Eric and Dylan: "Go Romans!" "Go Romans!!" "Yeah!!" "Wooo!"

    Eric discusses "Arlene", his 12-gauge Savage shotgun. "Thanks to the gun show, and to Robyn. Robyn is very cool."

    The boys then decide to take a video tour of "Reb's room" and "all the illegal shit" in it. Dylan backs out of the room with the camera and pretends to be Eric's mother.
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    Part 2....

    Eric: (waves at the camera) "Hi, mom."

    Taping Eric Harris's bedroom, they record a desk with a hutch, where Eric points out a pair of gloves which he says he took from a doctor's office and uses for making bombs. He points out several packages of fireworks on top of a speaker, which is also on top of the hutch. He also calls attention to a soda can with several shots through it, along with quite a few shotgun shells sitting atop the hutch. He then points out a small "black treasure chest" that he calls a "good hiding place".

    Eric then points out a small bullet that he says is his "first bullet", then in a drawer he shows off a stash of solar igniters, batteries, pipes, clocks, and engines. He pulls out a black two-bell alarm clock that he discusses using to build a bomb with and then takes out what he describes as "completed pipe bombs" from a Home Base bag taken from one of the desk drawers. He pulls out another Home Base bag filled with more pipe bombs he calls the "Beta batch", at which point Dylan mentions the "bunker". Dylan tries to film out the west window but it's too dark outside; all that records is the glare on the window.

    Dylan: "You can't see it, it's buried there. That's why it's called a bunker."

    Eric says there are "four mortar grenades, ten crickets, and three Alfa's." He then points out a blue spiral notebook that he calls his "journal".

    Eric points out a blue spiral notebook that he calls his "journal". Eric opens another drawer, revealing a piece of the handle of one of their sawed-off shotguns. Also filmed in one of the drawers are two clocks which the boys describe as "future bombs". They show off a box of "crickets" -- small CO2 cartridges, duct taped with fuses.

    Dylan turns the video camera toward the dresser that's against the west wall. Eric opens up a door and points out a "Hell dog drawing" taped to the inside of the door. He says it was given to him years ago. Next to it is a piece of paper on which is written an "Anarchist substitute ingredient list".

    Eric goes on to describe a "25 pound bag of #8 buckshot" which is inside the dresser, but isn't shown on the tape. Eric then pulls out a BB rifle from what he describes as the hall closet (though it appears, on the tape, to be a closet in his room). He says this is where he keeps his shotgun. He also takes a box out of the closet and tells the camera that this is is his knife. From the box he pulls out a black-handled combat knife in a black sheath. He says that he paid $15 for it. Eric says there's a Swastika on the side and the camera zooms in to show the Swastika etched into the sheath.

    On the east wall, adjacent to the bedroom door, the teens point out a coil of green wire that they call a "50 foot cannon fuse". They move to the bookcase on the east wall, talking about a "Demon Knight" CD case, which Eric opens to reveal a receipt from Green Mountain Guns for "nine magazines" of 9mm carbine rifle bullets that they purchased for $15 each. Eric then removes a CD rack to expose three large pipe bombs hidden behind it, which he calls the "biggest".

    Eric then pulls out a black card box filled with "29 crickets" (more CO2 cartridge bombs). Eric then points to an area of the room (though the camera doesn't follow where he points) and describes a "coffee can in the corner which is full of gunpowder". The camera then focuses in on a black plastic box with the word "explosives" scratched into the side, sitting near the north wall of Eric's bedroom on the floor. Dylan mentions how Eric's parents took it away from him. Eric adds that they only took the pipe bomb out of it, and gave the box back. Inside the box the camera shows clock parts, fuses, tools, and CO2 cartridges.

    They also tape a white plastic file case that holds "nails for pipe bombs, caps to be filled with gunpowder", two boxes of 9mm rounds (50 bullets in each), 12 shotgun shells in a box, another box of shotgun shells, clips for a gun, and webbing. "What you will find on my body in April," Eric tells the camera.

    Later footage:

    Dylan Klebold sits in a tan La-Z-Boy recliner in Eric's basement bedroom, chewing on a toothpick while Eric Harris messes around with the now-stationary video recorder. When he's done Eric moves to sit in another recliner with the bottle of Jack Daniels whiskey, and his sawed-off shotgun named "Arlene" on his lap. He takes a small drink and tries not to wince at the taste.

    Eric: (in reference to the Oregon and Kentucky shootings) "Do not think we're trying to copy anyone. We had the idea before the first one ever happened. Our plan is better, not like those fucks in Kentucky with camouflage and .22s. Those kids were only trying to be accepted by others."

    They go on to talk about how they hate all races: "niggers, spics, Jews*, fucking whites". They also mention enemies that abused them and friends who didn't do enough to defend them.
    * [Dylan's family was Jewish.]

    In one segment, Eric and Dylan spend more than an hour discussing their hatred for humanity and their fellow students, whom they vowed to kill. They name some of the classmates they hope to murder [It's unknown whether any of those students were killed or wounded during the assault].

    A couple times during the rants Dylan has to warn Eric to talk more quietly so as not to wake Eric's parents who're sleeping upstairs.

    Eric: "We need a fucking kick start. If we have a fucking religious war - or oil - or anything. We need to get a chain reaction going here. It's gonna be like fucking Doom man - after the bombs explode. Tick, tick, tick, tick... Haa! That fucking shotgun (he kisses his gun) straight out of Doom. Go ahead and change gun laws - how do you think we got ours?"

    The boys talk about starting a revolution of the dispossessed.

    Eric: "We're going to kick-start a revolution."

    The teens discuss coming back as ghosts to haunt the survivors, to "create flashbacks from what we do and drive them insane," Eric tells the camera.

    Eric: "You guys will all die, and it will be fucking soon! I hope you get an idea of what we're implying here. You all need to die! We need to die, too! We need to fucking kick-start the revolution here!"

    Dylan: "The most deaths in U.S. history."

    Eric: (kisses his shotgun) "Hopefully."

    Dylan: "We're hoping. We're hoping. I hope we kill 250 of you. It will be the most nerve-racking 15 minutes of my life, after the bombs are set and we're waiting to charge through the school. Seconds will be like hours. I can't wait. I'll be shaking like a leaf."

    Eric: "I hope people have flashbacks."

    Eric: (making shooting noises while aiming his shotgun) "Isn't it fun to get the respect we're going to deserve? We don't give a shit because we're going to die doing it."

    It's getting late; Eric looks at his watch and says it's 1:28 AM on March 15. Dylan says people will note the date and time when watching it.

    Dylan: (predicting his parents' feelings of regret) "If only we could have reached them sooner, or found this tape."

    Eric "If only we would have searched their room. If only we would have asked the right questions." (talks about his mother being thoughtful, bringing him candy and Slim Jims) "I really am sorry about all this."

    Dylan: "They gave me my fucking life. It's up to me what I do with it."

    Eric: (shrugs) "My parents might have made some mistakes that they weren't really aware of."

    Dylan: (talks about how his parents taught him to be independent and self-reliant) "I appreciate that."

    They talk about how they want movies to be made about their story. Eric says he wants the film to have "a lot of foreshadowing and dramatic irony". He mentions a poem he wrote where he imagined himself as a bullet.

    Dylan: "Directors will be fighting over this story. I know we're gonna have followers because we're so fucking God-like. We're not exactly human -- we have human bodies but we've evolved into one step above you, fucking human shit. We actually have fucking self-awareness."

    The boys speculate whether Steven Spielberg or Quentin Tarantino should direct the
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  12. #362
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    wow cangirl, thanks!

    listening to those couple of clips, though, it's just beep beep b-beep lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lita View Post
    There's also a minor incident recorded in one of the "basement tapes." Eric, Dylan, and another boy named Mike were walking down the hall. Dylan was holding the video camera. Four boys, identified as "jocks" in the book I'm reading walk by. Eric noticably starts walking faster with his head down. As the four jocks get to Dylan, two go on either side of him and hit him with both of their elbows. The video-camera swings about 65 degrees.
    That is not from basement tapes, you can see it here. Sorry for the french language, it is only version I could find because others were removed. It was their friend Erik Veik who was holding the camera. Eric Harris is a boy on the right side.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NId_rr2G0eY

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    Too bad I can't find the original video. I have it, it is over 15 minutes long. Next thing that happens is Eric tries to talk with two girls, but they are not interested.

  15. #365
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    I don't know why the author of the book says that it's Dylan holding the camera. Maybe his voice sounded like Dylan's or because Eric is there, the author just assumed that Dylan had the camera.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lita View Post
    I don't know why the author of the book says that it's Dylan holding the camera. Maybe his voice sounded like Dylan's or because Eric is there, the author just assumed that Dylan had the camera.
    Yes, I think you are right. I've read from many places it was Erik Veik. I try to find it.

  17. #367
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    Well I have about 60 000 pages about Columbine (and many videos and hundreds of pictures). I really don't remember where it was. Anyway there is two kind of information about that. Some say it was Eric Veik, some say it was Dylan.

    Eric Veik tells himself in official report that he helped them with some movies. (there is a little misinformation, he also tells he helped them with Revenge for Hire and it really was Hitman for Hire. He also tells that Dylan and Eric were part of the Trench Coat Mafia and they really weren't). Source: Jefferson County Sheriff's Report pg.001-010909

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    The problem I have with this is that I work in the public school system. I walk down those halls often, and can't even begin to count the times, one group would bump another in the shoulder, or worse. This does not prove bullying.

    Remember all knew, and could see the camera. They could have been doing anything for the camera's sake.

    The thing to remember is that people were murdered that day, without the benefit of protecting themselves.

    If everyone who was bullied, shot, we would have very few kids left in this world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KCSunshine View Post
    I might have to read the Brown book again. The start of the Cullen book is a bit messy- a few typo's and it jumps around unnecessarily, but it gets much better. I agree Eric and Dylan would have been disappointed with the final body count, but thrilled with all the attention they got, and the fact that even the President of the United States was talking about them.
    I had it with me today at a workshop and the part where he was talking about how agonizing the wait was for the families who had not had their loved one show up, was devastating. Cassie Bernall's dad could see police in the library from their home with binocs, and Daniel R's dad found out by seeing his picture in the paper. The detail was very moving to me, and I was tearing up big time. I agree, it has improved with a couple of chapters.

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    Where'd that lady who gave the seminar complete with the video of those two committing suicide get that video? I thought the library cameras were off that day.

    Andrea

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    Unhappy "1 Bleeding To Death"

    Quote Originally Posted by KCSunshine View Post
    I cried too. Poor Dave Sanders, just trying to get as many kids out as possible. The whole thing was just horrific, beyond comprehension. And those poor parents, knowing their kids were lying dead on the ground and not being able to get to them for days.

    This pic always gets me...the sign that was held up by the window to get help for Dave Sanders...it didn't come soon enough for him...he bled to death.

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    Daniel Mauser Memorial Web Site

    If anyone hasn't seen this site yet...it's quite moving The pic above is from here as well you can view other pics from the public evidence viewing showing the weapons and other materials used in the shooting here:

    http://www.danielmauser.com/evidence.htm

    http://www.danielmauser.com/evidence2.htm

    http://www.danielmauser.com/evidence3.htm
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    No video has surfaced.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea View Post
    Where'd that lady who gave the seminar complete with the video of those two committing suicide get that video? I thought the library cameras were off that day.

    Andrea
    There was a great debate years ago as to how Dylan died. Look carefully at their death pic...under Dylan's right hand lies the Tec9 (the bullet that killed him was traced back to this gun as well as his blood on the nozzle) One issue though...Dylan is left handed and the entry point is on the left side of his temple. If there was a tape of the library...it would have surfaced by now or witnesses would have come forward. So far...it's become a mute issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miho View Post
    Did they ever release those audio recordings?
    As far as I know, they have not. They might have let the families hear them, for closure or something to that effect. But to the public, I don't know if they did or ever will.
    It was really horrible to listen to them. The dispatcher, who still worked for Littleton then (2006) still worked there. Not sure if she still does. It was still very hard for her to look and listen to the sensless carnage that took place. My boss told me that when I could look at a dead body and not feel anything, that's when I need to get out of the job. As soft a heart as I have, I'll be dispatching and doing coroner calls till I die (no pun intended in any way.).
    Aaahhhh! Springtime in southern Nevada!

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    That was the issue at that time...

    Quote Originally Posted by KCSunshine View Post
    Are you suggesting that Eric shot Dylan?

    No. It was later claimed by Jeffco police department that the leaked pics were taken after both bodies were searched for bombs, hence the positioning of the Tec9. Those pics were not how they were initially found. Hope that clears that up for you.

    Also, the Browns were privy to all information, including viewing the basement tapes, (for legal purposes) that the Sheriff office had as their son, Brooks Brown, was a POI and for some time the town looked down on them. It was very hard on them in particular when the Sheriff kept denying the report the Brown's made in reguards to Eric's on-line threat towards Brooks (it was later found).
    Last edited by Cangirl58; 05-01-2009 at 10:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CORONERGAL View Post
    As far as I know, they have not. They might have let the families hear them, for closure or something to that effect. But to the public, I don't know if they did or ever will.
    It was really horrible to listen to them. The dispatcher, who still worked for Littleton then (2006) still worked there. Not sure if she still does. It was still very hard for her to look and listen to the sensless carnage that took place. My boss told me that when I could look at a dead body and not feel anything, that's when I need to get out of the job. As soft a heart as I have, I'll be dispatching and doing coroner calls till I die (no pun intended in any way.).
    Jefferson County Sheriff's Multimedia report
    http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/col.../Pages/TOC.htm

    This is from that page
    Patti Nielsen's (teacher in the library) 911 call (full version wasn't released)
    http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2000...deos/PATTI.mpg

    There is few others 911 calls also.

  27. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
    Jefferson County Sheriff's Multimedia report
    http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/col.../Pages/TOC.htm

    This is from that page
    Patti Nielsen's (teacher in the library) 911 call (full version wasn't released)
    http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2000...deos/PATTI.mpg

    There is few others 911 calls also.
    Thanks, Northern Lights. I didn't know they had been released. Tried to listen but nope, still can't. Even if they are edited. Great link.
    Aaahhhh! Springtime in southern Nevada!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CORONERGAL View Post
    Thanks, Northern Lights. I didn't know they had been released. Tried to listen but nope, still can't. Even if they are edited. Great link.
    They have been there for years, people just don't know it. There is also many good photos and diagrams in that report.

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    I read in one report that Patti Nielsen was a substitute teacher; anybody know for sure? Either way she did the best job she could trying to protect those students. I remember back in high school we had this really nice teacher--she wasn't a teacher, she was practicing teaching before graduating to become a teacher, I don't remember what they're called--anyway when she finished her practice time, she took a job at Columbine and was there that day. She came back to visit our class and all she would say is that she at the school that day. Nicest teacher you'd ever want to have and I remember thinking how unfair it was that her first teaching job, less than a year there, and this happens in her school.

  30. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCSunshine View Post
    My concern is, if the central motivation for the attack was revenge for bullying, wouldn't the attack have been more targeted? Wouldn't they have sought out the people who were behind the bullying, rather than punishing everyone? I'm reading Cullen's book at the moment and he makes a very cogent argument for Eric being a psychopath and Dylan being a depressive. I don't deny for a second that bullying was involved, but there had to be something else about these two boys that provoked such an extreme reaction.
    I think what's so hard to remember is that the shooting was not planned the way it was carried out. The original plan was for the propane bombs to explode and then to kill as many students running out of the building as possible. When the bombs didn't explode, Eric and Dylan had to improvise the attack inside the school. Also, Eric did have a hit list on his website but his and Dylan's goal was to basically kill the school as a whole and everybody inside it. The building was the main target. I really don't think that either of them had any idea that thier "mission" would end the way it did. Thank God the detonators they bought were faulty because if those bombs had gone off, Eric and Dylan would have had the body count they wanted. Also, I have no doubt that Eric and Dylan were mentally ill. How can two people do something like this and not have a screw loose? But, there were other factors that played into this besides their mental conditions. Part of it was Dylan probably hated himself. He was part Jewish and hid that part of himself from Eric until he accidentally let it slip the eve of the shootings. Dylan identified himself in one of his AOL profiles as being bisexual, Eric hated homosexuals. I think that pretty much everything plays into the "why" of Columbine. Environment, timing, mental conditions, bullying etc. Had Eric moved to Columbine a year or two earlier than he had, he may have never been friends with Dylan. I don't think these the boys met and became friends coincidentally. I think they were put together to serve a purpose. Granted, the purpose was brutal and unfathomable but I think this opened up people's eyes to a lot of factors that people previously turned a blind eye to. It really served to show people that yes, it can happen here, it can happen to them. Eric and Dylan wanted their actions to start a revolt of the lower social class kids against the upper social class kids like the jocks. It didn't happen but I think people are now a lot more aware of bullying and schools are no longer turning the blind eye that they once were. However, it's obvious that schools are getting back to the way of "boys will be boys" mentallity since we have young kids committing suicide because of harassment at schools.

  31. #381
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    I have a problem with them being labeled "Mentally Ill" That puts the spot light on many who suffer from a mental illiness, and would never hurt someone.

    These boys were evil!! Why is that word not used anymore? Why are we so afraid to say it?

  32. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie View Post
    I have a problem with them being labeled "Mentally Ill" That puts the spot light on many who suffer from a mental illiness, and would never hurt someone.

    These boys were evil!! Why is that word not used anymore? Why are we so afraid to say it?
    A lot of people have called these boys evil. But the word "evil" like the words "mental illness" are labels. Of course evil people do evil things where as people with mental illness don't do evil things normally. The problem with labeling anybody is that you can dismiss their behavior based on their label instead of looking at the whys behind what they do. I believe that evil played a part in these killings as did a lot of other things. I think that's why people are reluctant to label anything as evil now is because then it kind of brushes what led up to the incident under the rug but that's just what I think.

  33. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie View Post
    These boys were evil!! Why is that word not used anymore? Why are we so afraid to say it?
    Who's afraid to say it? That word gets used about six million times a day by pretty much everybody, and very often about criminals.

  34. #384
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    It is what it is.... those boys were Satan's spawn. They were pure evil....no other word for it.

  35. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCSunshine View Post
    I think saying they were evil is a bit reductive and doesn't offer any real answers.

    i completely agree. being children and being sick do not make you evil.

    "To everything - turn, turn, turn...
    There is a season - turn, turn, turn...
    And a time for every purpose under heaven."

    - The Byrds

  36. #386
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    Books

    I have now read Brooks Brown, Jeff Kass & Dave Cullen's books about Columbine, and in my opinion, Cullen's Columbine was the best. It had the most detail overall, despite a bit of a choppy start. The only complaint I would have is that it has no photos.

    I need to go scrub my brain now.....

  37. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by DexterKitty View Post
    It is what it is.... those boys were Satan's spawn. They were pure evil....no other word for it.

    I agree. I found a link last night, I can try to find it again with copies of their jounals and it made my hair stand up reading some of this stuff!!

    And the hitman video they made. I only was able to read what was said I don't think the link the the video is online! Those two kids were way out there.

  38. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny62 View Post
    I agree. I found a link last night, I can try to find it again with copies of their jounals and it made my hair stand up reading some of this stuff!!

    And the hitman video they made. I only was able to read what was said I don't think the link the the video is online! Those two kids were way out there.

    Would love to see that if you can find it!
    Quote Originally Posted by stacebabe View Post
    The only reason I watched the entire thing was because I was wondering who the middle aged lesbian white woman was in the house full of Armenians. Then I found out it was Bruce Jenner.

  39. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie View Post
    Because the police knew these boys were trouble. They knew that they were going into peoples houses. They knew they were making bombs. But they did nothing about it.

    They saw and printed a list of students to be killed on the net, and never did anything about it.

    By the way none of those listed were killed.
    No surprise there.
    I've heard of a similar incident involving someone violent who murdered family members.
    Cops knew stuff but did zilch about it until it was too late.

  40. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxyMillions View Post
    I have now read Brooks Brown, Jeff Kass & Dave Cullen's books about Columbine, and in my opinion, Cullen's Columbine was the best. It had the most detail overall, despite a bit of a choppy start. The only complaint I would have is that it has no photos.

    I need to go scrub my brain now.....
    I just recd Cullen's book from amazon, I am eager to start reading.

  41. #391
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    Please post the link when you find it Danny, it sounds like a great read!
    Quote Originally Posted by Danny62 View Post
    I agree. I found a link last night, I can try to find it again with copies of their jounals and it made my hair stand up reading some of this stuff!!

    And the hitman video they made. I only was able to read what was said I don't think the link the the video is online! Those two kids were way out there.
    Are you a badfish too?

  42. #392
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    Hope you don't mind....

    Danny62...but the Hitmen For Hire is online...you can view it here:

    http://video.aol.com/video-detail/er...ire/3055776378

    Also, if you can't find the journals, I can help you there as well. Just let me know
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  43. #393
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    A few more.....

    ...rare videos of Dylan...starts off with Dylan driving his BMW to school in the morning...then for video class you see Dylan behind Blackjack Pizza (where he worked with Eric) . Then we have Eric, on the morning of the shootings purchasing a propane tank at King Sooper's. There are more videos that both produced for video class. Keep in mind that these videos are just about almost gone ....saving them would be a good suggestion.

    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Z9YGQTYX
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  44. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
    Jefferson County Sheriff's Multimedia report
    http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/col.../Pages/TOC.htm

    This is from that page
    Patti Nielsen's (teacher in the library) 911 call (full version wasn't released)
    http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2000...deos/PATTI.mpg

    There is few others 911 calls also.

    Best website ever!


    "I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."

  45. #395
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    Some very rare footage....

    http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...d4faa79cb79edb

    http://www.slatev.com/player.html?id=19837693001 (Eric is wielding a potato gun in this footage)

    http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...97a53249e92e66

    http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...97a53249e92e66 (Dylan's BMW)

    http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...5537f2c96f6d44 (very rare footage of both Dylan and Eric in the school...please note that both of their locker's were removed and the numbers removed form sequence)

    http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...4c9f2cc305a395 Seldom seen pics of both in their childhood, including their mugshots)

    http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...8987d50352e30b

    I also have the longer version of the Cafeteria tape if anyone is interested...for now...I'm done.
    Last edited by Cangirl58; 05-04-2009 at 10:19 PM.
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  46. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cangirl58 View Post
    http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...d4faa79cb79edb

    http://www.slatev.com/player.html?id=19837693001 (Eric is wielding a potato gun in this footage)

    http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...97a53249e92e66

    http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...97a53249e92e66 (Dylan's BMW)

    http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...5537f2c96f6d44 (very rare footage of both Dylan and Eric in the school...please note that both of their locker's were removed and the numbers removed form sequence)

    http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...4c9f2cc305a395 Seldom seen pics of both in their childhood, including their mugshots)

    http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...8987d50352e30b

    I also have the longer version of the Cafeteria tape if anyone is interested...for now...I'm done.
    great info!
    "I'm not great at the advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?"



  47. #397
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    Thanks for the goodies Cangirl58!
    I have become so OBSESSED with Columbine lately.
    Btw what is your tortie's name?
    Are you a badfish too?

  48. #398
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    Forgot to mention....

    Dylan was known as "VoDKa" and Eric as "Reb" (Eric also used a few more with his AOL accounts). These were their on-line screen names and I'm not sure if there are any gamers here, but both of them played Quake and Doom and made a few Doom wads. Although a few were saved, sadly a few were lost.

    xoxojessicaxoxo, KCSunshine and silverwaif77, your welcome. A few years ago, these clips were easily found on various sites. With youtube clamping down I'd suggest to save them as I believe within time these will also disappear. One great loss was hosted by a female, I have e-mailed her and await a response (I might not get one) but she had hundreds of pics about Columbine that are nowhere on the net now. I did search The Wayback machine but only the site shell remains, all pics are gone.

    silverwaif77...you know your cats or in this case mine lol Bailey is a rescue and true to her breed, she seeks out high places.
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  49. #399
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    One of Eric's AOL accounts...



    Also, on this site, http://members.tripod.com/~VanessaWest/columbine-4.html you can view 2 versions of the caferteria tapes. This site is quite detailed including a pic of Daniel Rohrbough lying dead on the sidewalk.
    image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2751&dateline=1220657569

  50. #400
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    [SIZE=+1]April 17, 1999[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1] Columbine High School's prom takes place on the night of April 17th. Someone has scratched out the date 'April 17' on several prom posters at the school and written in its place, 'April 20 - It's coming.'[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1] April 20, 1999
    Approximately 9:00
    [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1] The school's daily announcements begin on classroom televisions, courtesy of the school's Rebel News Network. A message scrolls across the bottom of the screen saying, "Today is not a good day to be here."
    [/SIZE]




    [SIZE=+1]I never knew this. Omg how eeary.
    [/SIZE]

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