I'm in the middle of the Jeff Kass book, read Brooks Brown's and have Dave Cullen's next, but I expect that the only "final" answers died with Eric, Dylan, and their victims.
I think it all comes down to who is asked about the climate at Columbine. Brooks Brown claims their was (his book further details what he and both Eric, Dylan were exposed to). Also, on another site, the sister of Joe Stair (friend to Eric and Dylan), who was in the library during the shooting and survived unharmed, had this to say about the subject just recently:
MnM wrote:Heh. Your brother sounds like a cool guy.
I'm kind of curious though, what exactly did he do to protect you from bullying? And what kinds of bullying did you personally witness?
Y'know, I actually don't know what he did. I didn't even think, "Wait a minute, I'm not getting bullied." He just said he was able to keep people from having me push a penny down the hall with my nose =P He never said HOW he did that, though.
I didn't witness any pushing or shoving (or penny-pushing) myself, but there was just this general environment that the jocks were superior to everyone else.
Quote:As for yourself, why did people ignore you? (I can definitely relate to that- my high school was just like that. Got shitted upon in Jr. High, basically ignored at my first school. My 2nd high school's a completely different story from either of those though)
I really don't know. Maybe 'cause I was quiet and kept to myself (though I was also that way in middle school and I wouldn't relive that for anything). I don't know, and frankly I don't care! I'll take getting ignored over getting teased/bullied any day!
BTW, her brother, committed suicide not too long ago
Also, in their writings and in the basement tapes, one reason given for this shooting was to enact "Revenge in the commons"...the commons was another name for the cafeteria. What this revenge could have been centred on was an incident where both Dylan and Eric were bombarded with ketchup coated tampons being flung onto them. Another possible reason could be related to their initial plans of blowing up the cafeteria which we all know now did not come to fruition.
Last edited by Cangirl58; 04-30-2009 at 05:48 PM.
I'm in the middle of the Jeff Kass book, read Brooks Brown's and have Dave Cullen's next, but I expect that the only "final" answers died with Eric, Dylan, and their victims.
I think that Eric and Dylan were also having Nazi butt sex...
As much damage as they did do, it seems like a bust, a final disappointment compared to what they had planned to do. I think they got kind of bored in the library in the end and killed themselves, b/c they'd run out of ideas. Pathetic losers to the very end.
I had to split this into 2 posts.....
March 15, 1999
Evidence item #265
Pieced together from the Columbine Report and Time's article dated 12-20-1999 (hard copy and online version).
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold are sitting in the Harris home basement-level family room. Eric is sitting on the couch and Dylan's sitting in a chair nearby. They're drinking from a Jack Daniels bottle, which Eric points out. The boys begin to discuss a number of topics; they speak of their hope that the videos they're making will one day be shown all over the world, when their "masterpiece" is done and everyone wants to know why they did it.
Dylan: "I'd like to make a thank you to Mark John Doe and Phil John Doe. I hope you don't get fucked." (Eric laughs. Dylan continues.) "We used them. They had no clue... Don't blame them. And don't fucking arrest them. Don't arrest any of our friends, or family members or our co-workers. They had no fucking clue. Don't arrest anyone, because they didn't have a fucking clue. If it hadn't been them, it would've been someone else over 21."
They mention the time a clerk from Green Mountain Guns called Eric's home. Eric's dad, Wayne Harris, answered the phone.
When the clerk told him "Hey, your clips are in." Wayne - who owned guns himself - told the clerk he hadn't ordered any clips. Eric said his father never asked whether the caller even had the right phone number. Eric says if etiher the clerk or his father had asked just one question, "we would have been fucked.".
Dylan: "We wouldn't be able to do what we're going to do."
They then talk about Brandon Larson and how "you will find his body". The boys talk about the large propane bombs they plan to use on the unsuspecting students in the school cafeteria. They discuss bombs and two bags of "propane and napalm", and mention Mr. Stevens and the shotgun.
"We're proving ourselves," they tell the camera and go on to discuss their philosphies. Eric says he isn't spending much time with his family, so that there won't be any "bonding" and "this won't be harder to do".
Eric: "I'm sorry I have so much rage, but you put it on me."
Eric then complains about his father and how his family had to move five times. He says he always had to be the new kid in school, and was always at the bottom of the "food chain", and had no chance to earn any respect from his peers as he always had to "start out at the bottom of the ladder". He hated the way people made fun of him: "my face, my hair, my shirts." He's wearing a t-shirt that has the words "Wilder Wein" printed on it -- he references the shirt several times during the video but never explains what it means. [Wilder Wein is a song written by Rammstein.]
Eric: "More rage. More rage." (motions with his hands for emphasis) "Keep building it on."
Dylan: "If you could see all the anger I've stored over the past four fucking years..."
Dylan then recalls how popular and athletic his older brother Byron was and how he constantly "ripped" on him, as did his brother's friends. According to Dylan, with the exception of his parents, his extended family treated him like the runt of the litter.
Dylan: "You made me what I am. You added to the rage."
Dylan says that as far back as the Foothills Day Care center he hated the "stuck-up" kids who he felt hated him. "Being shy didn't help. I'm going to kill you all. You've been giving us shit for years."
Dylan: "Fuck you Walsh."
The boys go on to discuss Walsh patrolling Deer Creek (Deputy Tim Walsh primarly works the south end of Jefferson County). The teens then talk about how there's "a month and a half left". They mention Green Mountain Guns again and how they phoned the house, leaving a message on the answering machine: "Your clips are in".
Dylan and Eric brag about hiding their tools of death -- and about the close calls along the way. Eric shows the camera a black tackle box with his bomb-making equipment stowed inside. They boast about concocting their plan under the noses of unsuspecting parents and friends.
Dylan recalls a time when his parents walked into his bedroom while he was trying on his trenchcoat to see if it would hide his sawed-off shotgun. "They didn't even know it was there."
Eric tells about a day he was going to go shooting in the mountains. He had his shotgun in a gym bag: it was in his "terrorist bag, sticking out". When he walked by his mother, she saw the butt of the gun but she assumed it was nothing more sinister than his BB gun. Fooling people was a point of pride for both boys, one they gloat about during the video-taping.
Eric: "I could convince them that I'm going to climb Mount Everest, or I have a twin brother growing out of my back. I can make you believe anything."
The subject shifts and they begin talking about several people they know. They make a comment about Dustin Harris (or Harrison), and how "everything you say is pointless."
Eric: "Shut the fuck up, Nick, you laugh too much! And those two girls sitting next to you, they probably want you to shut the fuck up, too! Jesus! Rachel and Jen.. and.. whatever."
Dylan: "I don't like you, Rachel and Jen, you're stuck up little bitches, you're fucking little.. Christian, Godly little whores!"
[Hear this and the line above]
Eric: "Yeah.. 'I love Jesus! I love Jesus!' -- shut the fuck up!"
Dylan: "What would Jesus do? What the fuck would I do..?" (he acts like he's shooting the camera with his hand, with sound to accompany it)
Eric: "I would shoot you in the motherfucking head! Go Romans! Thank God they crucified that asshole."
[Hear the above 3 lines]
Eric and Dylan: "Go Romans!" "Go Romans!!" "Yeah!!" "Wooo!"
Eric discusses "Arlene", his 12-gauge Savage shotgun. "Thanks to the gun show, and to Robyn. Robyn is very cool."
The boys then decide to take a video tour of "Reb's room" and "all the illegal shit" in it. Dylan backs out of the room with the camera and pretends to be Eric's mother.
Eric: (waves at the camera) "Hi, mom."
Taping Eric Harris's bedroom, they record a desk with a hutch, where Eric points out a pair of gloves which he says he took from a doctor's office and uses for making bombs. He points out several packages of fireworks on top of a speaker, which is also on top of the hutch. He also calls attention to a soda can with several shots through it, along with quite a few shotgun shells sitting atop the hutch. He then points out a small "black treasure chest" that he calls a "good hiding place".
Eric then points out a small bullet that he says is his "first bullet", then in a drawer he shows off a stash of solar igniters, batteries, pipes, clocks, and engines. He pulls out a black two-bell alarm clock that he discusses using to build a bomb with and then takes out what he describes as "completed pipe bombs" from a Home Base bag taken from one of the desk drawers. He pulls out another Home Base bag filled with more pipe bombs he calls the "Beta batch", at which point Dylan mentions the "bunker". Dylan tries to film out the west window but it's too dark outside; all that records is the glare on the window.
Dylan: "You can't see it, it's buried there. That's why it's called a bunker."
Eric says there are "four mortar grenades, ten crickets, and three Alfa's." He then points out a blue spiral notebook that he calls his "journal".
Eric points out a blue spiral notebook that he calls his "journal". Eric opens another drawer, revealing a piece of the handle of one of their sawed-off shotguns. Also filmed in one of the drawers are two clocks which the boys describe as "future bombs". They show off a box of "crickets" -- small CO2 cartridges, duct taped with fuses.
Dylan turns the video camera toward the dresser that's against the west wall. Eric opens up a door and points out a "Hell dog drawing" taped to the inside of the door. He says it was given to him years ago. Next to it is a piece of paper on which is written an "Anarchist substitute ingredient list".
Eric goes on to describe a "25 pound bag of #8 buckshot" which is inside the dresser, but isn't shown on the tape. Eric then pulls out a BB rifle from what he describes as the hall closet (though it appears, on the tape, to be a closet in his room). He says this is where he keeps his shotgun. He also takes a box out of the closet and tells the camera that this is is his knife. From the box he pulls out a black-handled combat knife in a black sheath. He says that he paid $15 for it. Eric says there's a Swastika on the side and the camera zooms in to show the Swastika etched into the sheath.
On the east wall, adjacent to the bedroom door, the teens point out a coil of green wire that they call a "50 foot cannon fuse". They move to the bookcase on the east wall, talking about a "Demon Knight" CD case, which Eric opens to reveal a receipt from Green Mountain Guns for "nine magazines" of 9mm carbine rifle bullets that they purchased for $15 each. Eric then removes a CD rack to expose three large pipe bombs hidden behind it, which he calls the "biggest".
Eric then pulls out a black card box filled with "29 crickets" (more CO2 cartridge bombs). Eric then points to an area of the room (though the camera doesn't follow where he points) and describes a "coffee can in the corner which is full of gunpowder". The camera then focuses in on a black plastic box with the word "explosives" scratched into the side, sitting near the north wall of Eric's bedroom on the floor. Dylan mentions how Eric's parents took it away from him. Eric adds that they only took the pipe bomb out of it, and gave the box back. Inside the box the camera shows clock parts, fuses, tools, and CO2 cartridges.
They also tape a white plastic file case that holds "nails for pipe bombs, caps to be filled with gunpowder", two boxes of 9mm rounds (50 bullets in each), 12 shotgun shells in a box, another box of shotgun shells, clips for a gun, and webbing. "What you will find on my body in April," Eric tells the camera.
Dylan Klebold sits in a tan La-Z-Boy recliner in Eric's basement bedroom, chewing on a toothpick while Eric Harris messes around with the now-stationary video recorder. When he's done Eric moves to sit in another recliner with the bottle of Jack Daniels whiskey, and his sawed-off shotgun named "Arlene" on his lap. He takes a small drink and tries not to wince at the taste.
Eric: (in reference to the Oregon and Kentucky shootings) "Do not think we're trying to copy anyone. We had the idea before the first one ever happened. Our plan is better, not like those fucks in Kentucky with camouflage and .22s. Those kids were only trying to be accepted by others."
They go on to talk about how they hate all races: "niggers, spics, Jews*, fucking whites". They also mention enemies that abused them and friends who didn't do enough to defend them.
* [Dylan's family was Jewish.]
In one segment, Eric and Dylan spend more than an hour discussing their hatred for humanity and their fellow students, whom they vowed to kill. They name some of the classmates they hope to murder [It's unknown whether any of those students were killed or wounded during the assault].
A couple times during the rants Dylan has to warn Eric to talk more quietly so as not to wake Eric's parents who're sleeping upstairs.
Eric: "We need a fucking kick start. If we have a fucking religious war - or oil - or anything. We need to get a chain reaction going here. It's gonna be like fucking Doom man - after the bombs explode. Tick, tick, tick, tick... Haa! That fucking shotgun (he kisses his gun) straight out of Doom. Go ahead and change gun laws - how do you think we got ours?"
The boys talk about starting a revolution of the dispossessed.
Eric: "We're going to kick-start a revolution."
The teens discuss coming back as ghosts to haunt the survivors, to "create flashbacks from what we do and drive them insane," Eric tells the camera.
Eric: "You guys will all die, and it will be fucking soon! I hope you get an idea of what we're implying here. You all need to die! We need to die, too! We need to fucking kick-start the revolution here!"
Dylan: "The most deaths in U.S. history."
Eric: (kisses his shotgun) "Hopefully."
Dylan: "We're hoping. We're hoping. I hope we kill 250 of you. It will be the most nerve-racking 15 minutes of my life, after the bombs are set and we're waiting to charge through the school. Seconds will be like hours. I can't wait. I'll be shaking like a leaf."
Eric: "I hope people have flashbacks."
Eric: (making shooting noises while aiming his shotgun) "Isn't it fun to get the respect we're going to deserve? We don't give a shit because we're going to die doing it."
It's getting late; Eric looks at his watch and says it's 1:28 AM on March 15. Dylan says people will note the date and time when watching it.
Dylan: (predicting his parents' feelings of regret) "If only we could have reached them sooner, or found this tape."
Eric "If only we would have searched their room. If only we would have asked the right questions." (talks about his mother being thoughtful, bringing him candy and Slim Jims) "I really am sorry about all this."
Dylan: "They gave me my fucking life. It's up to me what I do with it."
Eric: (shrugs) "My parents might have made some mistakes that they weren't really aware of."
Dylan: (talks about how his parents taught him to be independent and self-reliant) "I appreciate that."
They talk about how they want movies to be made about their story. Eric says he wants the film to have "a lot of foreshadowing and dramatic irony". He mentions a poem he wrote where he imagined himself as a bullet.
Dylan: "Directors will be fighting over this story. I know we're gonna have followers because we're so fucking God-like. We're not exactly human -- we have human bodies but we've evolved into one step above you, fucking human shit. We actually have fucking self-awareness."
The boys speculate whether Steven Spielberg or Quentin Tarantino should direct the
wow cangirl, thanks!
listening to those couple of clips, though, it's just beep beep b-beep lol
Too bad I can't find the original video. I have it, it is over 15 minutes long. Next thing that happens is Eric tries to talk with two girls, but they are not interested.
I don't know why the author of the book says that it's Dylan holding the camera. Maybe his voice sounded like Dylan's or because Eric is there, the author just assumed that Dylan had the camera.
Well I have about 60 000 pages about Columbine (and many videos and hundreds of pictures). I really don't remember where it was. Anyway there is two kind of information about that. Some say it was Eric Veik, some say it was Dylan.
Eric Veik tells himself in official report that he helped them with some movies. (there is a little misinformation, he also tells he helped them with Revenge for Hire and it really was Hitman for Hire. He also tells that Dylan and Eric were part of the Trench Coat Mafia and they really weren't). Source: Jefferson County Sheriff's Report pg.001-010909
The problem I have with this is that I work in the public school system. I walk down those halls often, and can't even begin to count the times, one group would bump another in the shoulder, or worse. This does not prove bullying.
Remember all knew, and could see the camera. They could have been doing anything for the camera's sake.
The thing to remember is that people were murdered that day, without the benefit of protecting themselves.
If everyone who was bullied, shot, we would have very few kids left in this world.
Where'd that lady who gave the seminar complete with the video of those two committing suicide get that video? I thought the library cameras were off that day.
If anyone hasn't seen this site yet...it's quite moving The pic above is from here as well you can view other pics from the public evidence viewing showing the weapons and other materials used in the shooting here:
It was really horrible to listen to them. The dispatcher, who still worked for Littleton then (2006) still worked there. Not sure if she still does. It was still very hard for her to look and listen to the sensless carnage that took place. My boss told me that when I could look at a dead body and not feel anything, that's when I need to get out of the job. As soft a heart as I have, I'll be dispatching and doing coroner calls till I die (no pun intended in any way.).
Aaahhhh! Springtime in southern Nevada!
No. It was later claimed by Jeffco police department that the leaked pics were taken after both bodies were searched for bombs, hence the positioning of the Tec9. Those pics were not how they were initially found. Hope that clears that up for you.
Also, the Browns were privy to all information, including viewing the basement tapes, (for legal purposes) that the Sheriff office had as their son, Brooks Brown, was a POI and for some time the town looked down on them. It was very hard on them in particular when the Sheriff kept denying the report the Brown's made in reguards to Eric's on-line threat towards Brooks (it was later found).
Last edited by Cangirl58; 05-01-2009 at 11:41 PM.
This is from that page
Patti Nielsen's (teacher in the library) 911 call (full version wasn't released)
There is few others 911 calls also.
I read in one report that Patti Nielsen was a substitute teacher; anybody know for sure? Either way she did the best job she could trying to protect those students. I remember back in high school we had this really nice teacher--she wasn't a teacher, she was practicing teaching before graduating to become a teacher, I don't remember what they're called--anyway when she finished her practice time, she took a job at Columbine and was there that day. She came back to visit our class and all she would say is that she at the school that day. Nicest teacher you'd ever want to have and I remember thinking how unfair it was that her first teaching job, less than a year there, and this happens in her school.
I have a problem with them being labeled "Mentally Ill" That puts the spot light on many who suffer from a mental illiness, and would never hurt someone.
These boys were evil!! Why is that word not used anymore? Why are we so afraid to say it?
It is what it is.... those boys were Satan's spawn. They were pure evil....no other word for it.
I have now read Brooks Brown, Jeff Kass & Dave Cullen's books about Columbine, and in my opinion, Cullen's Columbine was the best. It had the most detail overall, despite a bit of a choppy start. The only complaint I would have is that it has no photos.
I need to go scrub my brain now.....
I agree. I found a link last night, I can try to find it again with copies of their jounals and it made my hair stand up reading some of this stuff!!
And the hitman video they made. I only was able to read what was said I don't think the link the the video is online! Those two kids were way out there.
Danny62...but the Hitmen For Hire is online...you can view it here:
Also, if you can't find the journals, I can help you there as well. Just let me know
...rare videos of Dylan...starts off with Dylan driving his BMW to school in the morning...then for video class you see Dylan behind Blackjack Pizza (where he worked with Eric) . Then we have Eric, on the morning of the shootings purchasing a propane tank at King Sooper's. There are more videos that both produced for video class. Keep in mind that these videos are just about almost gone ....saving them would be a good suggestion.
http://www.slatev.com/player.html?id=19837693001 (Eric is wielding a potato gun in this footage)
http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...97a53249e92e66 (Dylan's BMW)
http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...5537f2c96f6d44 (very rare footage of both Dylan and Eric in the school...please note that both of their locker's were removed and the numbers removed form sequence)
http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site...4c9f2cc305a395 Seldom seen pics of both in their childhood, including their mugshots)
I also have the longer version of the Cafeteria tape if anyone is interested...for now...I'm done.
Last edited by Cangirl58; 05-04-2009 at 11:19 PM.
Thanks for the goodies Cangirl58!
I have become so OBSESSED with Columbine lately.
Btw what is your tortie's name?
Are you a badfish too?
Dylan was known as "VoDKa" and Eric as "Reb" (Eric also used a few more with his AOL accounts). These were their on-line screen names and I'm not sure if there are any gamers here, but both of them played Quake and Doom and made a few Doom wads. Although a few were saved, sadly a few were lost.
xoxojessicaxoxo, KCSunshine and silverwaif77, your welcome. A few years ago, these clips were easily found on various sites. With youtube clamping down I'd suggest to save them as I believe within time these will also disappear. One great loss was hosted by a female, I have e-mailed her and await a response (I might not get one) but she had hundreds of pics about Columbine that are nowhere on the net now. I did search The Wayback machine but only the site shell remains, all pics are gone.
silverwaif77...you know your cats or in this case mine lol Bailey is a rescue and true to her breed, she seeks out high places.
Also, on this site, http://members.tripod.com/~VanessaWest/columbine-4.html you can view 2 versions of the caferteria tapes. This site is quite detailed including a pic of Daniel Rohrbough lying dead on the sidewalk.
[SIZE=+1]April 17, 1999[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1] Columbine High School's prom takes place on the night of April 17th. Someone has scratched out the date 'April 17' on several prom posters at the school and written in its place, 'April 20 - It's coming.'[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] April 20, 1999
[SIZE=+1] The school's daily announcements begin on classroom televisions, courtesy of the school's Rebel News Network. A message scrolls across the bottom of the screen saying, "Today is not a good day to be here."
[SIZE=+1]I never knew this. Omg how eeary.