Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 200 of 502

Thread: The Black Dahlia

  1. #151
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    ky
    Posts
    2,009
    Quote Originally Posted by silverwaif77 View Post
    Ok my problem with the hodel book, where is the motive? What made Elizabeth different from all the other women the good doctor banged? I also don't believe a person capable of such a gruesome crime would be able to function in society and keep a medical practice and live into their 90's. Elizabeth's eyes were opened to identify the color, check out crime scene pics and not morgue pics, eyes are closed. Her hands are from being bound for several days, of course we will never know the true or the whole story, after more than 60 years,but I think Wolfe and Gilmore are the closest we will get at this point. I think the thing that attracts everyone is a hauntingly beautiful young woman, a horrible crime, no motive, hollywood dreams, brutalization, what might have been, ect.
    I havent read the entire Hodel book...just parts on the internet: according to his son...Dr Hodel had the training of a surgeon but his practice was in verneral dieseases and illeagal abortions so...basically he had the goods on the Hollywood players, so to speak. Back then and maybe even now there was such a stigma attached to VD and certainly abortions which were illeagal that, according to his son, he became "untouchable".

    Aledgedlly he got away with killing his secretary because she knew too much. Aparently he also made money by overcharging and treating patients for vd that they didnt have, taking advantage of the fact they were ignorant and ashamed of having vd.

    He was also a horrible womanizer and taught his son the ways to manipulate woman behind his wifes back (I believe he was married seveal times)and to "go whoring". He also, according to his daughter, made her do oral sex on him at age 11 and then intercouse at age 14. Also, had his friend (photographer) Man Ray take nude pictures of he at this age. He was charged, put on trial, and aquitted of incest.

    His son belives he also killed more woman including the actress Jeanne French who was found with the words "Fuck you BD" written on her dead body in lipstick. His son said he had seen his father draw targets around a womans breats in lipstick at a party/orgy that he had one time.

    After being a suspect in the BD case he packed up his things and left his family and practice and moved to the far east for 40 years where his son is certain he continued to kill woman.

    Also, the police had wire taps in his home in LA where they heard him admit over the phone to killing the secretary and BD

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2

    Question black dahlia

    I know she was not that famous of an actress but she is probibly the most gruesome unsolved death in the 1900's but who do you believe did it everyone has to have an opinion and why with dna can't we find out?

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Johnny Cashville
    Posts
    22,611

    You don't mess with friggin Dave Coulier click here to mess

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    7,971
    I truly think it was one of those murders that someone knows, or knew, all the facts about but was kept quiet by some means. Nowadays, you could say that it is a little like the JonBenet case. We have the technology to clear the Ramsey family but don't have it to find the real killer. I think the Dahlia was an inside thing and the truth can never be known. Those who know are dead and gone. I feel sorry for her. Always have. Hollywood is a scarry place and I could not imagine the last thing going through that small town girls head before she died. Damn, what a way to go. I think some sick Hollywood bigwig did it and the police were paid to cover it up. Too late for DNA...

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    new zealand
    Posts
    2,593
    Quote Originally Posted by ladyofdarkness View Post
    I know she was not that famous of an actress but she is probibly the most gruesome unsolved death in the 1900's but who do you believe did it everyone has to have an opinion and why with dna can't we find out?
    hi lady there is a pre existing thread on black dahlia, ask to merge yourself into it:

    http://www.findadeath.com/forum/show...t=black+dahlia
    pull the string!

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    7,349
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    I must admit that this murder has fascinated me for years. Especially since Lucy Arnez played her in a TV movie back in the 70's.
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned that? (Maybe they have and I just didn't see it.)
    It ranks up there with the TOP TEN of the most unsolved crimes of this century!
    I just got a copy of this movie with Arnaz, "Who Is The Black Dahlia?"
    I remembered it being really good as a kid when I saw it on TV...but childhood perceptions definitely change. The movie is godawful, and she stinks in it. Holy shit no wonder she never really had an acting career.

    Lucie did kinda look like Beth though, but that's as far as it goes.



  7. #157
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,447
    Check out this site with photos of the Hodel home. Amazing house.

    What a freak.



    http://roseandchang.com/property-det...property_ID=47
    Check out the rest of the photos here

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Van Nuys, CA
    Posts
    1,063

    Elizabeth Short (Black Dahlia)

    Today would've been Elizabeth's 84th birthday.

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Motor City
    Posts
    1,587
    Sad that her killer was never brought to justice. I didn't realize how young she actually was. My father is 80. She very well could have lived till today if she hadn't been murders. Are any of her sisters alive?

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    3,922
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    She very well could have lived till today if she hadn't been murder.
    Yes agree being alive would have bettered her chances. Jk

    Happy b-day BD!

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Motor City
    Posts
    1,587
    Quote Originally Posted by Chevyheaven View Post
    Yes agree being alive would have bettered her chances. Jk

    Happy b-day BD!
    BWAHAHAHA. You are funny, Chevy! I really am curious if her family is still alive. She had three sisters.

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles County
    Posts
    386
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    BWAHAHAHA. You are funny, Chevy! I really am curious if her family is still alive. She had three sisters.
    Im curious too if any are still alive.

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    7,349
    "Knew Bette Short in 1944, maybe autumn, mild weather. Remember her wearing a light blue two-piece dress or suit that reflected the color of her eyes. And a black or dark colored raincoat, which in those days was an all-purpose coat. She'd come into the Medford Cafe. It would be late at night after midnight. I was a student at Leland Powers School of Radio, my last year. I was 4F. Sometimes I'd be alone, sometimes I'd be with some friends.

    "Bette liked the booths, out of the spotlight. She seemed like a private person, embarrassed by remarks. Bette would join us, and we'd move to a booth, but sometimes she'd leave if the conversation got rough or vulgar. Usually she could handle things, had a way of freezing you with a look. Mostly Bette would talk to me. Best were the times when we were alone.

    "I think Bette was a victim of our time. She wanted to be somebody famous. She had stars in her eyes, dreams rather than plans. She'd talk about her trips. I never equated her with the Black Dahlia. Nature gave her a great endowment. She didn't wear seductive clothes, didn't need to. She was meticulous, neat. I think of her as pretty, private, with a sadness about her. A void, something missing. She seemed older than her years, more mature. Somehow I felt she didn't know how to cope. She didn't smile a lot. She had a soft voice, low, refined, not tough, a shadow figure. White, white alabaster skin and black, black hair. She had lipstick shaped full lips, no rouge. She wasn't brazen, not a hussy."

    —Joe Sabia
    Friend
    Medford, Massachusetts



  14. #164
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Posts
    193
    She was what made me a death hag at an early age. I was always curious about her and whoever killed her.

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    antioch, Ca Aka Satan's armpit
    Posts
    1,265
    Happy Birthday Elizabeth!!!
    Are you a badfish too?

  16. #166
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Connecticut, You know home of ESPN
    Posts
    9,266
    God if she was alive when she was cut in half I hope she was unconscious.


    "I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."

  17. #167
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Motor City
    Posts
    1,587
    Quote Originally Posted by Miho View Post
    God if she was alive when she was cut in half I hope she was unconscious.
    Even if she wasn't, she suffered unspeakable torture for several days before.

  18. #168
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Connecticut, You know home of ESPN
    Posts
    9,266
    From: http://www.prairieghosts.com/beth.html



    "The suspect turned out to be a tall, thin man with a pronounced limp who went by the name of Arnold Smith. On the recording, Smith claimed that a character named "Al Morrison" was the violent sexual deviant who had killed and mutilated Beth Short. St. John suspected that Arnold Smith and Al Morrison were actually the same person!
    The tape was a chilling and detailed account of how Beth had come to Al Morrison’s Hollywood hotel room because she didn’t have anywhere else to stay. According to Smith, Beth refused both liquor and sex with Morrison and became upset when he drove her to a house on East 31st Street near San Pedro and Trinity Streets. Here, he assaulted her and prevented her from escaping by beating her into submission. Even though Beth fought back, he was able to overwhelm her with his strength. While she was on the floor, Morrison stated that he planned to sodomize her and Beth began struggling once again. This time, he hit her so hard that she passed out. The tape then went on the describe how Morrison had gotten a paring knife, a large butcher knife and some rope and had returned to the room to find Beth conscious again. She tried to scream, but he stuffed her underpants into her mouth and tied her up. While she was naked and bound, he began jabbing her over and over again with the knives, cutting and slashing her. One of the lacerations even extended both sides of her mouth and across her face. By this time, the girl was dead.
    Morrison then laid boards across the bathtub and cut Beth in half with the butcher knife, letting the blood drain into the tub. He wrapped the two pieces of the body in a tablecloth and a shower curtain and put it into the trunk of his car. From there, he drove to the vacant lot and left the body to be found later that morning."


    "I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."

  19. #169
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kuce Creek
    Posts
    35,575
    The reason her killer cut her in half was for easy transport to where he dumped her; she was already dead when it happened, but as Vamp said she suffered torture for several days before he killed her.
    Cindy Tapia
    Our Town
    In Loving Memory Brandon Lee

    You can fix anything but a blank page. --Bonnie Hearn Hill

  20. #170
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Connecticut, You know home of ESPN
    Posts
    9,266
    The face cutting is always what got me *shiver*


    "I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."

  21. #171
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kuce Creek
    Posts
    35,575
    Quote Originally Posted by ladyofdarkness View Post
    I know she was not that famous of an actress but she is probibly the most gruesome unsolved death in the 1900's but who do you believe did it everyone has to have an opinion and why with dna can't we find out?
    She was not an actress at all. She was a wannabe who never was.
    Cindy Tapia
    Our Town
    In Loving Memory Brandon Lee

    You can fix anything but a blank page. --Bonnie Hearn Hill

  22. #172
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    7,349
    "Knew Bette Short in 1944, maybe autumn, mild weather. Remember her wearing a light blue two-piece dress or suit that reflected the color of her eyes. And a black or dark colored raincoat, which in those days was an all-purpose coat. She'd come into the Medford Cafe. It would be late at night after midnight. I was a student at Leland Powers School of Radio, my last year. I was 4F. Sometimes I'd be alone, sometimes I'd be with some friends.

    "Bette liked the booths, out of the spotlight. She seemed like a private person, embarrassed by remarks. Bette would join us, and we'd move to a booth, but sometimes she'd leave if the conversation got rough or vulgar. Usually she could handle things, had a way of freezing you with a look. Mostly Bette would talk to me. Best were the times when we were alone.

    "I think Bette was a victim of our time. She wanted to be somebody famous. She had stars in her eyes, dreams rather than plans. She'd talk about her trips. I never equated her with the Black Dahlia. Nature gave her a great endowment. She didn't wear seductive clothes, didn't need to. She was meticulous, neat. I think of her as pretty, private, with a sadness about her. A void, something missing. She seemed older than her years, more mature. Somehow I felt she didn't know how to cope. She didn't smile a lot. She had a soft voice, low, refined, not tough, a shadow figure. White, white alabaster skin and black, black hair. She had lipstick shaped full lips, no rouge. She wasn't brazen, not a hussy."

    —Joe Sabia
    Friend
    Medford, Massachusetts

    __________________



  23. #173
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    LDN, U.K
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by Miho View Post
    The face cutting is always what got me *shiver*
    The Chelsea smile. Not nice at all, I can manage looking at the other stuff but her face...eek.

    "After wine, out comes the truth"

  24. #174
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Azusa, California
    Posts
    8,204
    I think this was the work of a Serial Killer...perhaps the Torso Killer.

  25. #175
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    new zealand
    Posts
    2,593
    she was half the woman she claimed to be...
    pull the string!

  26. #176
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,384
    OK, I've looked at the death photos of Elizabeth on the johngilmore.com site, and I have to ask - WHY AM I NOT TOTALLY GROSSED OUT BY THIS?!?

    Don't get me wrong, they're horrific pics and what that poor girl must have suffered *shudder* but I've seen some other comments on here where people say "Oh, I can't look, they're gruesome, they make me feel sick!"

    They don't make me feel sick or nauseous. I could study them for ages.

    I'm starting to worry about myself.


    My Sweet George Feb 25 1943 - November 29 2001
    Many thanks to IHTT for my FAB signature!

  27. #177
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    3,941
    me too! I know what you mean...I try to look at her half closed eyes and try to just understand what happened..what was she looking at when her soul left her body....It always gets me her eye were half open like that. But Im never grossed out...at all...just trying to understand....

  28. #178
    Guest Guest
    Fascinating case - One of the first ever Hollywood ones that grabbed my attention!

  29. #179
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    3,941
    I wnder what the mark on her neck is? I soo wish the pic was in color....

  30. #180
    Guest Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    I wnder what the mark on her neck is? I soo wish the pic was in color....
    I wonder if todays technology could colourise it?

  31. #181
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    1,622
    OJ, albeit very young, did it.

  32. #182
    Guest Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Stonecold View Post
    OJ, albeit very young, did it.
    Lol

  33. #183
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind the Orange curtain, CA
    Posts
    1,527
    Quote Originally Posted by NewYorkDoll View Post
    Check out this site with photos of the Hodel home. Amazing house.

    http://roseandchang.com/property-det...property_ID=47
    Check out the rest of the photos here
    Wow, I don't remember if I have ever seen any pictures from inside that house. What a great looking house, it would be really cool to rent it for 25K a month if you had the money. I wonder if there is any of her DNA that lingers in the concrete or crevices of the home.

    I think I have said this on this thread before, but if you ever get the chance to see the cemetery in Oakland where Beth Short is do so, it's one of the coolest old cemeteries I have ever seen. I have a nice framed grave rubbing I did of her headstone while I was there, I will try to post a picture of it when I have a chance.

  34. #184
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    1,064
    Quote Originally Posted by Delivian View Post
    Wow, I don't remember if I have ever seen any pictures from inside that house. What a great looking house, it would be really cool to rent it for 25K a month if you had the money. I wonder if there is any of her DNA that lingers in the concrete or crevices of the home.

    I think I have said this on this thread before, but if you ever get the chance to see the cemetery in Oakland where Beth Short is do so, it's one of the coolest old cemeteries I have ever seen. I have a nice framed grave rubbing I did of her headstone while I was there, I will try to post a picture of it when I have a chance.

    Yes. Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland. I have several family members buried and interred there, including my grandparents. Oakland is my hometown. I go to that cemetery often, but have never looked up Elizabeth's grave.....I have to definitely check it out!
    Rudolph Valentino 1895-1926

  35. #185
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    7,349
    Quote Originally Posted by EthelMertz View Post
    Yes. Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland. I have several family members buried and interred there, including my grandparents. Oakland is my hometown. I go to that cemetery often, but have never looked up Elizabeth's grave.....I have to definitely check it out!
    I have very specific directions to the grave Ethel if you ever need them. Just let me know before you go and I can pm them to you.



  36. #186
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    1,064
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack-O-Lantern View Post
    I have very specific directions to the grave Ethel if you ever need them. Just let me know before you go and I can pm them to you.

    Thanks Jack! I think I will take you up on that. Next time I go, I will let you know.
    Rudolph Valentino 1895-1926

  37. #187
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    12
    I looked at that rotten site, that poor woman with the butchering, RIP Elizabeth Short

  38. #188
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1
    Is there a post on Find a Death for Elizabeth Short ? Am I missing it ?

  39. #189
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,384
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Tarbuck View Post
    Is there a post on Find a Death for Elizabeth Short ? Am I missing it ?
    I don't think there is Billy (welcome by the way), because the case was never solved.


    My Sweet George Feb 25 1943 - November 29 2001
    Many thanks to IHTT for my FAB signature!

  40. #190
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,753
    I have a book on that case, where it suggests that maybe the mafia was involved in it. Leaving her body as a "calling card" or a warning. It even suggest that Bugsy Siegel did the actual killing. Let me find the book because I cannot remember the title of it.

  41. #191
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,753
    This is the book I was talking about.


    In 1946, Elizabeth Short traveled to Hollywood to become famous and see her name up in lights. Instead, the dark-haired beauty became immortalized in the headlines as the "Black Dahlia" when her nude and bisected body was discovered in the weeds of a vacant lot. Despite the efforts of more than four hundred police officers and homicide investigators, the heinous crime was never solved. Now, after endless speculation and false claims, bestselling author Donald H. Wolfe discovers startling new evidence—buried in the files of the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office for more than half a century.
    With the aid of archival photos, news clippings, and investigative reports, Wolfe documents the riveting untold story that names the brutal murderer—the notorious Mafia leader, Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel—and the motive—an unwanted pregnancy resulting from Short's involvement with the most powerful figure in Los Angeles, Norman Chandler. But Wolfe goes even further to unravel the large-scale cover-up behind the case. Wolfe's extensive research, based on the evidence he discovered in the recently opened LADA files, makes The Black Dahlia Files the authoritative work on the murder that has drawn endless scrutiny but remained unsolved—until now

  42. #192
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    7,349
    eca--I put a lot more credence in this (Wolfe's) book than in the rantings of Steve Hodel in that 'Black Dahlia Avenger' drivel.

    Looked at from this perspective, Beth Short's murder makes much more sense. Not saying I buy into it, but Wolfe's theories certainly do pull some loose ends together that never were previously.

    I'm still going with John Gilmore's SEVERED as the best of the bunch. It just somehow feels like he's getting closer to the truth than many of the other theorists.



  43. #193
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,394
    Quote Originally Posted by EthelMertz View Post
    Yes. Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland. I have several family members buried and interred there, including my grandparents. Oakland is my hometown. I go to that cemetery often, but have never looked up Elizabeth's grave.....I have to definitely check it out!
    I have a couple of friends buried there. One of them I used to visit often. She's buried all the way at the top among a bunch of Asian people. Their families used to get annoyed with me since I'd have me and my friend's favorite songs blasting on my car stereo (Led Zeppelin or Jimi Hendrix) while I sat there drinking beer with her, reminiscing about the good ol' days!

  44. #194
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kuce Creek
    Posts
    35,575
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack-O-Lantern View Post
    eca--I put a lot more credence in this (Wolfe's) book than in the rantings of Steve Hodel in that 'Black Dahlia Avenger' drivel.

    Looked at from this perspective, Beth Short's murder makes much more sense. Not saying I buy into it, but Wolfe's theories certainly do pull some loose ends together that never were previously.

    I'm still going with John Gilmore's SEVERED as the best of the bunch. It just somehow feels like he's getting closer to the truth than many of the other theorists.
    Ditto on Gilmore's Severed. It is supposed to be the defining book. I have read most of the others, including the Hodel--all of them came off as tabloid to me.
    Cindy Tapia
    Our Town
    In Loving Memory Brandon Lee

    You can fix anything but a blank page. --Bonnie Hearn Hill

  45. #195
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack-O-Lantern View Post
    eca--I put a lot more credence in this (Wolfe's) book than in the rantings of Steve Hodel in that 'Black Dahlia Avenger' drivel.

    Looked at from this perspective, Beth Short's murder makes much more sense. Not saying I buy into it, but Wolfe's theories certainly do pull some loose ends together that never were previously.

    I'm still going with John Gilmore's SEVERED as the best of the bunch. It just somehow feels like he's getting closer to the truth than many of the other theorists.
    Funny thing is I have read book's on her case where daddy was the killer. It's always daddy. I read another one that you could see mental illness between words. A woman who claimed that her father was the actual killer, she later committed suicide. I don't think we will ever know the true story behind the killing.

  46. #196
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    7,349
    Oh yeah, this one LOL...she definitely had bats in her belfry...poor thing was seriously delusional.
    Attached Images Attached Images



  47. #197
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack-O-Lantern View Post
    Oh yeah, this one LOL...she definitely had bats in her belfry...poor thing was seriously delusional.
    I know poor sad thing. But the saddest thing was that this book was allowed to be published. I mean anyone in their right mind would have know that this was just ravings from a mad woman.

  48. #198
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    i'm here
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack-O-Lantern View Post
    I read Hodel's book (along with all the others), and I'm not convinced. The pictures his dad kept in his diary, supposedly of Elizabeth Short, were NOT Elizabeth Short--they look nothing like her. Since Hodel's entire theory is built around those two photos, that kind of shoots him down right out of the gate. Plus, the author implicates people such as internationally famous artist Man Ray and director John Huston as friends and/or accomplices, HUH? He's nuts, this guy...

    Mary Pacios, childhood friend of Elizabeth Short, wrote a really good book about her, "Childhood Shadows: The Hidden Story of the Black Dahlia Murder." From this book, one gets a really, really good idea of what Short was like as a person prior to her moving to California. However, Pacios comes up with none other than Orson Welles as her main suspect by the end of the book, which I find patently ridiculous!

    The book "Severed," by John Gilmore, is considered by most to be the authoritative reference on this topic. Gilmore's suspect, Jack Wilson, may or may not have committed the murder, but his intimate knowledge of the details of the crime assure us that he was either present during the crime, or knew the killer intimately. I think Gilmore's research and conclusions are the closest we'll come to ever knowing who committed this horrendous crime.
    I was about to say the same thing. There is noway that those pictures are of her, no facial features look alike!

  49. #199
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    444
    Ugh! Those tattoos are unsettling! Is that her arms or the back of legs?
    I cried for shoes .... til I met a man with no feet.


  50. #200
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Brainerd, MN
    Posts
    313
    I believe it was the back of her leg.
    "Goddamn, sonofagun, get me a cheeseburger!"
    ---Layne Staley

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •