Questions for a recovering mortician

[Miss Swallow]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

That is difficult. People in this profession have to have an "off switch" for emotional distress to get the job done--just like firemen, paramedics and pediatricians do. That's not to imply that we become calloused to the agony of loss, but it's a job that needs to be done, and we do find a way. If it's the very last thing we can do for that child, that family, then there's some pride in the task at hand. But what I did personally was just save it all up and go home and have a good cry. That was my release, and it worked for me.

My cousin had a preemie die after a day of life & the funeral home said she was too small to be embalmed, so the funeral had to be a quickie job. Are stillborn/newborn preemies too small for embalming?

[warmbear]

Originally Posted by Miss Swallow

My cousin had a preemie die after a day of life & the funeral home said she was too small to be embalmed, so the funeral had to be a quickie job. Are stillborn/newborn preemies too small for embalming?

Mbalmer can answer your question more completely, but I can tell you that many deceased preemies' skin is like very thin, fragile tissue paper, which is so delicate that it can be rubbed off with the gentlest handling. The longer the child has been gone, the more fragile this already delicate skin becomes. I have not heard of preemies being embalmed for this reason (not because of size perse). These deaths are very hard for everyone involved. There is a group of us who make tiny, doll sized lace gowns & caps (with pink or blue trim, & open backs with ties) for these littlest of angels so that they can be dressed nicely instead of merely wrapped in a receiving blanket, which makes for a better memory for mom & dad.

[Pryncis]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

People make all kinds of burial requests, and none of them are surprisingly odd, really. I guess in a way you can "take it with you," depending on what it is. The most interesting thing I ever buried with a body was a margarita, but I'm sure LOTS of stuff I couldn't even conceive of ended up in the many caskets that I put into the ground.

People love to do that--stuff things into caskets when they think no one is looking: bongs, booze, condoms, pictures, stuffed animals, candy, a deck of playing cards, beer, food (at my own father's funeral, some lady put some of her home made brownies in with him,) golf tees, old socks, magazines, pagers, rabbits' feet (for good luck?!!) cans of soup, pet cremains, packs of smokes, CDs, letters, etc. I guess a symbol of whatever connection people had to one another in life going into the "eternal vehicle" helps the survivors feel better. It's all very personal and actually, I'm all for it.

I took my mother to see her first real concert as a "make-a-wish" surprise about four months after she was diagnosed with pancreatic and liver cancer. I took her, my step-father and myself to see Elton John at the Richmond Colosseum. We had a freakin blast at the show! We danced, we sang out loud, we laughed, we hooted and hollered and we cried he sang " I Guess That's Why You Call it the Blues". From what I remember, it was my mom's favorite song by him and she absolutely adored Elton John. I kept all three ticket stubs as keepsakes because I knew there wouldn't be much more time where she would be healthy enough to do something like this. I put one stub in my photo album and one in my jewelry box where I can see it anytime I want. The third I placed in her casket the very last time I saw her. She passed away six days after my 25th birthday and two days before Thanksgiving in 2003. She was 56 years old, fought for a year and a half and the only one in our family to have EVER been diagnosed with cancer, of any type. That concert was one of the best memories I have of my mother.

[warmbear]

I am irish american (FBI), and with our funerals we traditionally have wakes... When we lost my maternal grandfather (this was in the late 1980's - cancer), we brought a bottle of irish whiskey, and it was passed around and all the men took a swig, and then the bottle was resealed, and put in the casket, and buried with gramps. He also had an honest-to-goodness cuban cigar in his breast coat pocket (I don't know, and don't want to know how that item was acquired, considering it's legality in the US).

He loved his cigars and whiskey, that gentleman.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by BellePosting

I did find out that in Wisconsin, the funeral home has first dibs on any left over social security checks to cover the bill. My grandmother's funeral was mostly prepaid, and services were provided by a well known firm owned by a "friend" of the family. Some of the expenses exceeded the prepaid amount probably due to the luncheon or something. When I got the final bill, it indicated in handwriting that the overage was "written off". The impression was clearly that it was not charged to us nor owed to the funeral home.

When I completed my bookkeeping, I discovered that the funeral home had legally snatched whatever was left in my grandmother's nursing home account. We would have gladly paid for everything, but the way it was done seemed quite underhanded to me.

I bet they have first dibs on any estate funds too. MblamR Do you know?

I may not be able to answer your question to your satisfaction, since I've never been in on the bookkeeping end of the business. I've never heard of a funeral home "attaching" any Social Security benefits for the payment of a funeral bill. The funeral director must fill out a "Statement of Death" for the deceased individual, and if I understand correctly, depending on the date of death, some portion of the most recent SS check sent to the person might even have to be returned.

I've never heard of a funeral home chasing after nursing home accounts, either. Shoot, when my dad died, I tried to "donate" the proceeds in his account to another resident who might be in need of some extra money, but they STILL sent his funds back to me (several months later.)

It's not true that a funeral home has "first dibs" on the estate to receive payment for services rendered. They can go after the estate, I suppose, which is the purpose of those "announcements" in the Classified Advertising section of the newspaper: any and all to whom money is owed have the option of stepping forward, I guess, to claim their due. But estates--if there IS anything--take forever to settle. Most unpaid funeral bills go to a collection agency.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Reecy

I finally finished reading all the posts and I didn't see this question pop up so here goes.

My cousin died in the street. He was shot to death. Meanwhile the family told us that they were waiting for his father to come see him at the funeral home. My cousin was in the funeral for at least 9 days. We viewed his body on day 8. (The father came on day 9). On day 8 my cousin did not look like himself. He was so dark. This young man was not dark to begin with. He was almost looking a little green in color. I remember seeing him and feeling so sad. When I asked some of the family members there why his color was so dark they said it was because he was in the funeral home too long. What do you think?

Also my grandfather was a tall man. The funeral director told us they had to get a special coffin for him because he couldn't fit in a standard coffin. Is this true?

One more question. I went to a funeral where a young boy drowned. He was in a close casket. These dummy people who first went to the funeral home opened the casket and found a white cardboard box top. Is this how they do a close casket? Sorry for all the questions. I'll have one more when I read your answers hopefully. LOL.......

The dark color present in your cousin's remains was probably due to refrigeration and livor mortis. Liver mortis is caused when bodies are refrigerated over long periods of time because refrigeration helps keep the blood in the body liquid. However, without preservation, the vessels and the blood decompose, just as other tissues do, and this causes livor mortis. Refrigeration also dehydrates the skin, which can cause it to turn a darker color.

It is possible that someone is too tall to fit into a standard sized casket. The average length of a casket is 84 inches. Width is 28 inches. I've never had to order an "extra long," but I've had to order over-sized caskets for very large individuals.

The cardboard top in that casket........well, I've never heard of it, except in cases of cremation, when a rental casket is used. The rental is a shell into which is put what's called an "insert," which is a cardboard box with a decorative interior. Prior to transport to the crematory, the insert is removed from the shell, with the body in it, of course, and covered with a cardboard lid. The only other thing I can think of (funeral directors have to improvise more often than you know,) is that the child was not embalmed, and a lid such as was used was meant to cover his remains in case anyone did open up the casket to take a peek.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by dailyvault

MbalmR, I've always wondered why caskets cost so much money, especially when it's something that the living will only briefly see (and, let's face it, the deceased doesn't care whether or not the box they're in is fancy). Could you enlighten us?

Casket manufacturers set the initial price for their merchandise.

Casket prices are based on materials used to manufacture them, and the methods used in that manufacture. For example, wood caskets often cost more than metal because of the handcraftsmanship that goes into finishing them. It also depends on the wood used: oak costs less than mahogany. On the other hand, precious metal caskets (such as bronze,) cost more than many wood caskets. Metal caskets come in different weights--a 20 gauge steel casket weighs less than a 16 gauge casket ("gauge" here refers to the thickness of the sheets of metal required to equal about one inch of thickness,) therefore cost less. Metal caskets can be "stamped" out by machines during manufacture, so they are often less labor intensive to produce.

Then of course........and you knew this was coming......funeral homes mark up the prices of their merchandise, just like other businesses do. The mark-up is entirely up to the funeral home owner, using a certain percentage to determine the final value of the casket. Percentages are based on many factors: the economy of the community (what it is reasonable to expect people to be able to afford or willing to pay,) the profit goals of the FH owner, the popularity of certain caskets, etc.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Miss Swallow

My cousin had a preemie die after a day of life & the funeral home said she was too small to be embalmed, so the funeral had to be a quickie job. Are stillborn/newborn preemies too small for embalming?

Most infants can be embalmed. In the case of a premature infant, it's much more difficult. Everything is SO tiny and so delicate. One method to embalm premature infants is to soak the infant's remains in a preservative solution over night, which would give the family more time to plan a funeral for the child, but the embalmer runs the risk of dehydrating the tissues if the body is soaked too long. It has to be carefully monitored.

[mgpm]

My grandfather needed an extra long casket because he was very tall, as well.

[Belle]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

I've never heard of a funeral home chasing after nursing home accounts, either.

I remember being quite angry at the time because the funeral bill gave the impression that the balance due was absorbed by the funeral home, yet they did get the exact amount due out of Grandma's nursing home cash which included any social security checks she was allowed to keep. We certainly would have gladly and quickly paid any funds due if we received a bill, especially since the amount probably was for food and drinks for friends of the family.

I looked into it this morning, and got clarification. My Grandma's nursing home bills were tied to our state's medical welfare program, Medicaid. Most people's are, I bet. Her situation was complicated because she was one of the only people to actually have awesome Long Term Care (nursing home insurance) that paid most, if not all, of her nursing home costs. These benefits were through General Motors which is why American cars cost so much. She even had vision insurance during retirement. The situation was very complex, thank gosh I was able to do the accounting myself, which is the only reason I discovered what the funeral home did.

Because she was involved with the state welfare program, the state had a right to recover any money she did have at death. The regulations, however, list the order that any estate funds go to debts: first to estate costs lke lawyers, the funeral costs go next, then the state has third priority at any money in the account.

So, the funeral home was exactly within their rights to grab the money due. If they hadn't, perhaps the state could have taken the money. However, the funeral director gave the impression during arrangements that they were doing things as a personal friend of the family, and it really appeared to me they wanted it to look like they "wrote off" the balance due when they actually took the time to submit and collect the bill from Gran's nursing home cash.

Anyway, my situation where the funeral home had priority to the money (and obviously knew it) was because the state had covered, or was ready to cover, Grandma's nursing come care.

[MbalmR]

A good point is brought up here regarding Medicare/Medicaid. You know those commercials on TV advertising insurance policies for "death benefits?" You've got to be very careful about where you put your money for future use when it comes to paying for funeral costs. Some of those insurance policies aren't considered "exempt assets," so if or when you have to go on Medical Assistance (in this state, anyway,) those policies might be counted against you and you'll find yourself ineligible for MA benefits. If you cash the policies in, you lose a ton of money on them. There's even a "look back" period to see how many assets you "dumped" before applying for MA. Always check with your local funeral home to find out what's the safest way to set aside funds to pay for your funeral. MA guildelines in this state are very precise about what you can own, how much your car can be worth, etc. If you don't qualify for MA, you pay for everything--including nursing home care--out of pocket until you're broke. THEN you're eligible.

[warmbear]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

A good point is brought up here regarding Medicare/Medicaid. You know those commercials on TV advertising insurance policies for "death benefits?" You've got to be very careful about where you put your money for future use when it comes to paying for funeral costs. Some of those insurance policies aren't considered "exempt assets," so if or when you have to go on Medical Assistance (in this state, anyway,) those policies might be counted against you and you'll find yourself ineligible for MA benefits. If you cash the policies in, you lose a ton of money on them. There's even a "look back" period to see how many assets you "dumped" before applying for MA. Always check with your local funeral home to find out what's the safest way to set aside funds to pay for your funeral. MA guildelines in this state are very precise about what you can own, how much your car can be worth, etc. If you don't qualify for MA, you pay for everything--including nursing home care--out of pocket until you're broke. THEN you're eligible.

Medicaid can be very difficult... My SIL is permanently disabled, and she is only allowed to have $2000.00 in assets, TOTAL by medicaid. This total does include any prepaid funeral arraignments, up to the cash value of the arraignments. In her case (we have alreeady prepaid everything already so we would not get a bill later), the cash value is only $500.00 because of the way the plan works (although the plan cost over $2000.00). So, $500.00 is counted by medicaid towards her $2000.00 in assets.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by warmbear

Medicaid can be very difficult... My SIL is permanently disabled, and she is only allowed to have $2000.00 in assets, TOTAL by medicaid. This total does include any prepaid funeral arraignments, up to the cash value of the arraignments. In her case (we have alreeady prepaid everything already so we would not get a bill later), the cash value is only $500.00 because of the way the plan works (although the plan cost over $2000.00). So, $500.00 is counted by medicaid towards her $2000.00 in assets.

It's brutal, isn't it? It often makes me stop to wonder why I have been saving "for the future" all this time. It seems one day I'll get wiped out paying for long-term care either way!

[warmbear]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

It's brutal, isn't it? It often makes me stop to wonder why I have been saving "for the future" all this time. It seems one day I'll get wiped out paying for long-term care either way!

The sad fact is that is what occurs to most people.. We now recommend that after holding back the 3 month cash "buffer" that families perform a "spend down" for the patient, and buy the patient a new TV, clothes, a recliner chair, whatever the patient could use at the facility before their money is gone, and they have to go on medicaid. Families are allowed by medcaid rules to use the person's assets for the person themselves (no one else) without having to pay it back later..

[Dearheart]

after the deaths of both my sister and father back in 2002..I pre paid and pre arranged everything with the funeral home that handled them...I don't have the contract here with me to quote it exactly but it's a "fixed" rate contract...what I paid for is what my family will get regardless of any increases in product or services.


I have a question...what are the laws concerning placing a headstone at a grave? do they vary from state to state/home to home? My best friend died 12 years ago...her kids have never paid for the funeral and to this day she has no marker on her grave...don't get me started on those kids...6 of them and they can't cough up 20 bucks a piece per month!? I have made payments when I can..as a single mom this is difficult..I asked them about a headstone and the funeral home said that until the service is paid in full there will be no headstone...one of the directors that dealt with her family even had the balls to say to me that he had half a mind to dig her up for her families failure to pay!!!! I reported him to the state..cus I know that's got to be illegal! I make it a point to go to the cemetery often enough to keep potted plants/flowers and I make a wooden "cross" with her name on it and place it on her grave...these items are always gone when I return every two weeks. After this many years would they still be trying to collect for her funeral? and if not...if someone independent from the family/or the name on that contract came in and paid for a headstone would they have to allow it? Sorry to be long winded about this...but it really bugs me that people are walking on her and don't even know she's there

[Reecy]

This thread is so interesting I've learned so much. Thanks MbalmR....... Now I have 2 more questions and a comment.

I went to my cousins wake a couple of years ago. I remember she died of AIDS. When I went to view her body she had what seems like a net over her body like a light violet colored net. Did the funeral home sell this? It seemed that her mother didn't want anyone to kiss her because of the AIDS ( just guess this). What do you think?

I also went to another cousins wake. She died because she was brutally raped and thrown out of a tall building roof (like 18 floors or more). So I thought they would have a closed casket. The casket was open and my cousin was beautiful. Almost like she never had such a brutal accident.
How could that be?

I also have to say that my Mother in Law had Alzheimers for 16 years and before she passed she looked wrinkled and skinny and blah. When I saw her in the coffin I was astounded at how she looked. Beautiful. Just like she always did before Alzheimers took her away from us. I want to thank all those professional persons who do this kind of work. You don't know how many times you go to a funeral home and are so fearful of what you'll see. It's such a gift you have.

[MbalmR]

Thank you, Reecy, for the kind words.

The only reason I can think of for a type of veil draped over an open casket is to "soften" the appearance of the features under the lights in the viewing area, such as when a person has had to have a great deal of restorative work done, and there is a lot of wax and makeup to conceal sutures. In the case of an AIDS victim, this would not be the case. Also, you can't catch AIDS from touching the deceased (or the living, for that matter,) nor by kissing the remains good bye. Maybe she just had a lot of make up on and looked garish under the lights, so the funeral director did something to soften her appearance.

In the case of your other cousin, an obviously talented restorative artist spent a great deal of time to restore her to a "natural" appearance. Again, this may require the use of glues, fine suturing, waxes, tissue fillers, and heavy cosmetics, but it can be done, if enough time is invested by a caring professional.

[warmbear]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

Thank you, Reecy, for the kind words.

The only reason I can think of for a type of veil draped over an open casket is to "soften" the appearance of the features under the lights in the viewing area, such as when a person has had to have a great deal of restorative work done, and there is a lot of wax and makeup to conceal sutures. In the case of an AIDS victim, this would not be the case. Also, you can't catch AIDS from touching the deceased (or the living, for that matter,) nor by kissing the remains good bye. Maybe she just had a lot of make up on and looked garish under the lights, so the funeral director did something to soften her appearance.

In the case of your other cousin, an obviously talented restorative artist spent a great deal of time to restore her to a "natural" appearance. Again, this may require the use of glues, fine suturing, waxes, tissue fillers, and heavy cosmetics, but it can be done, if enough time is invested by a caring professional.

Isn't the netting a very old idea? I have photogrpahs around somewhere from the 1920's in which the deceased is covered by a fine netting draped over the open casket. My personal thought was that it looked more romantic/dramatic, but I could not think of any really practical reasons for the netting.. Yes, a fine netting/gauze would definitely "soften" the view of the deceased.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Dearheart

after the deaths of both my sister and father back in 2002..I pre paid and pre arranged everything with the funeral home that handled them...I don't have the contract here with me to quote it exactly but it's a "fixed" rate contract...what I paid for is what my family will get regardless of any increases in product or services.


I have a question...what are the laws concerning placing a headstone at a grave? do they vary from state to state/home to home? My best friend died 12 years ago...her kids have never paid for the funeral and to this day she has no marker on her grave...don't get me started on those kids...6 of them and they can't cough up 20 bucks a piece per month!? I have made payments when I can..as a single mom this is difficult..I asked them about a headstone and the funeral home said that until the service is paid in full there will be no headstone...one of the directors that dealt with her family even had the balls to say to me that he had half a mind to dig her up for her families failure to pay!!!! I reported him to the state..cus I know that's got to be illegal! I make it a point to go to the cemetery often enough to keep potted plants/flowers and I make a wooden "cross" with her name on it and place it on her grave...these items are always gone when I return every two weeks. After this many years would they still be trying to collect for her funeral? and if not...if someone independent from the family/or the name on that contract came in and paid for a headstone would they have to allow it? Sorry to be long winded about this...but it really bugs me that people are walking on her and don't even know she's there

First of all, I can't begin to fathom a funeral director saying such a heartless and despicable thing to you. I'm glad he was reported, and I hope they gave him a serious reprimand, right before they fired his ass.

It sounds to me like you're dealing with a "combo" funeral home/cemetery. These businesses have very strict rules about what kinds of markers can be placed in their cemeteries because that's how they potentially make another sale. If this is the case, there's probably not much you can do. They might not allow an independent monument company to place a marker in their cemetery, no matter who pays for it.

You can investigate it, though. If you are allowed to go through an independent monument company, you will have to pay for the stone/marker, the engraving and setting fees. The cemetery might charge some setting fees as well.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by warmbear

Isn't the netting a very old idea? I have photogrpahs around somewhere from the 1920's in which the deceased is covered by a fine netting draped over the open casket. My personal thought was that it looked more romantic/dramatic, but I could not think of any really practical reasons for the netting.. Yes, a fine netting/gauze would definitely "soften" the view of the deceased.

"Old time" netting may have served the same purpose. It may also have been used to keep flies away. Prior to air conditioning, whether in a funeral home or in a family home, flies would absolutely be drawn to the corpse, so the netting would resist their entrance into the nose or ears of the deceased.

[warmbear]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

"Old time" netting may have served the same purpose. It may also have been used to keep flies away. Prior to air conditioning, whether in a funeral home or in a family home, flies would absolutely be drawn to the corpse, so the netting would resist their entrance into the nose or ears of the deceased.

Now that is an appetizing thought (lol)...

I once had a call in the middle of a snowstorm, when we got there, the "man down" could not be seen, so we had to dig around in the deep snow until we found him (deceased - apparent MI). He was partially frozen..(out in the middle of the woods -- rural america) we had to put him in the bucket of a backhoe to get him out to the rig in the road.. We could not get him in the rig because of his body's odd position, so we had to "break" him to get him in (one of the very few things that actually squicks me).

I had a couple of really big, burly firemen help me to get him straightened out enough to put in the rig.. It was not pretty, I tell you.. I had declare him, and then we just took his remains to the family's choice of funeral parlor (which happened to be operated by a friend). He was not especially pleased to see the condition of the remains, I guess he really had to work to get the face straightened out (the decedent had fallen on his face, and it was frozen and very asymetrical)..

[MbalmR]

Oddly enough, having worked in Chicago and Wisconsin, I never had to deal with frozen remains! Interesting.

[warmbear]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

Oddly enough, having worked in Chicago and Wisconsin, I never had to deal with frozen remains! Interesting.

I guess you would have to consider that the luck of the draw.. I have had the somewhat dubious duty of having to declare a number of frozen decedents, and deliver them to various funeral parlors.. The operators of the parlors were never especially pleased to have to deal with frozen remains. I once had to deliver a frozen body which was found on both knees, the rear end sitting on the back of the lower legs, with the arms crossed and with the head down and resting on the forearms (face down). I might as well have delivered a giant pretzel to the funeral parlor.

[geekygirl]

Originally Posted by warmbear

Now that is an appetizing thought (lol)...

I once had a call in the middle of a snowstorm, when we got there, the "man down" could not be seen, so we had to dig around in the deep snow until we found him (deceased - apparent MI).

Just out of curiosity, what does MI mean? Mental illness or ???

[warmbear]

Originally Posted by geekygirl

Just out of curiosity, what does MI mean? Mental illness or ???

MI: Myocardial Infarction - commonly referred to as a heart attack.

[Bayou Voodoo]

Originally Posted by geekygirl

Just out of curiosity, what does MI mean? Mental illness or ???

Myocardial Infarct....a fancy way to say heart attack.

[Sparkles]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

"Old time" netting may have served the same purpose. It may also have been used to keep flies away. Prior to air conditioning, whether in a funeral home or in a family home, flies would absolutely be drawn to the corpse, so the netting would resist their entrance into the nose or ears of the deceased.

A little OT but....

This actually reminds me of the time I was at my ex bf's (bf at the time) mother's viewing back in August 2000. I had helped take care of her through a lot of her battle with breast cancer (taking care of her at her home, taking her to appts, etc.). At her viewing me, my bf, and his little sis were kneeling down in front of the open casket and saying a prayer. I looked up at her and was looking at her face thinking "Im so glad she's not in anymore pain," and what did I see?... a really little bug (I think a fruit fly) crawl up her nose. I swear, I almost fainted (well it was more of a almost fainted/wanting to jump up and going "Omg, omg, omg...eww, ewww, ewwww...") and I just got SO upset. Of course I never told anyone... I just sucked it up, kept it to myself, went out front, smoked a cigarette with some of the other family members and cried. I told my mom about it a day or so later, but never mentioned it to anyone else. I will never forget that as long as I live. I think that's another reason why I try to avoid open-casket things.

[geekygirl]

Originally Posted by Sparkles

A little OT but....

This actually reminds me of the time I was at my ex bf's (bf at the time) mother's viewing back in August 2000. I had helped take care of her through a lot of her battle with breast cancer (taking care of her at her home, taking her to appts, etc.). At her viewing me, my bf, and his little sis were kneeling down in front of the open casket and saying a prayer. I looked up at her and was looking at her face thinking "Im so glad she's not in anymore pain," and what did I see?... a really little bug (I think a fruit fly) crawl up her nose. I swear, I almost fainted (well it was more of a almost fainted/wanting to jump up and going "Omg, omg, omg...eww, ewww, ewwww...") and I just got SO upset. Of course I never told anyone... I just sucked it up, kept it to myself, went out front, smoked a cigarette with some of the other family members and cried. I told my mom about it a day or so later, but never mentioned it to anyone else. I will never forget that as long as I live. I think that's another reason why I try to avoid open-casket things.

OMG, you are so amazing. I would have yelled HOLY SHIT! and everyone within 50 yards of me would have known instantly what happened.

I do Information Technology work for a large city's Coroner's office and the first time I was there, I was struck by how many BUG ZAPPERS there were. On the floor where they do the autopsies, they are hung on the walls every ten feet or so. What's horrible is that you can hear the Zzzzt of a bug being zapped on a very regular basis, say every couple of minutes. Underneath each bug zapper is a collection tray and I bet some poor sucker has to clean them out periodically.

That's something you never see on CSI. I am amazed that folks don't see bugs on bodies at funeral more often. The bugs are naturally attracted to rotting flesh, and are actually necessary to keep the environment clean and tidy. Very much part of the circle of life.

[MbalmR]

Anyone who has the misfortune of being at the rotting stage when they arrive at the funeral home is usually kept in a body pouch, preferably in a closed refrigeration unit until burial or cremation takes place. And funeral directors are VERY adept at using fly swatters.

[warmbear]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

Anyone who has the misfortune of being at the rotting stage when they arrive at the funeral home is usually kept in a body pouch, preferably in a closed refrigeration unit until burial or cremation takes place. And funeral directors are VERY adept at using fly swatters.

Decomp is just NASTY. I keep oil of cloves to swab at my nasal opening when I have to enter a decomp area.. Some use oil of wintergreen, and some use "vicks", but I find that they don't work as well for me. No matter what you use, you cannot mask the smell..

The last bad one I was called to was a older man, in a *small* travel trailer, in the dead heat of summer. The trailer was completely closed up with no ventilation, and the man had been dead a few days in the heat.. It was not pretty, I can tell you.

[Bidmor]

I'll add my kudos for taking the time to educate others (including myself) concerning questions about embalming.

Forgive me if this has already been brought up but in previous generations it was common for the body to be placed in their own or a relative's home for viewing instead of a funeral home. I can remember when my grandfather died in the late 60's. My grandmother had his body and casket in their livingroom a couple of days for viewing until the funeral.

Is this done anymore with any frequency?

Thanks!

[stinkythejokedog]

How much would it cost for me to be buried with my mistress....in the same coffin...it would have to be big....bout 5,000 square feet...I'm thinking a King Tut kind of arrangement...yes, I'm kidding...just wondering what was the most anybody spent on
a funeral and what they asked for

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Bidmor

I'll add my kudos for taking the time to educate others (including myself) concerning questions about embalming.

Forgive me if this has already been brought up but in previous generations it was common for the body to be placed in their own or a relative's home for viewing instead of a funeral home. I can remember when my grandfather died in the late 60's. My grandmother had his body and casket in their livingroom a couple of days for viewing until the funeral.

Is this done anymore with any frequency?

Thanks!

You're welcome, and the answer is no. However, we would do it if a family wanted us to. My husband once supervised a wake/funeral at the house of the deceased, and I think it's a fine idea.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by stinkythejokedog

How much would it cost for me to be buried with my mistress....in the same coffin...it would have to be big....bout 5,000 square feet...I'm thinking a King Tut kind of arrangement...yes, I'm kidding...just wondering what was the most anybody spent on
a funeral and what they asked for

God bless you for your sense of humor.

The most expensive funeral that I know of locally cost $22,000 in the late 90s. The widower was a friend of my father's, and he kind of went off the deep end when his wife died. He wanted the best for her, and he got it. He had her placed in a bronze casket, in the best vault available, and then he bought a fancy marble bench for her gravesite in the cemetery.

[Reecy]

When my Pops died I whispered in his ear and told him how much I loved him and how much I'm going to miss him etc. etc. While telling him this I was crying but with a low cry. Imagine my surprise when I looked up at him his eyes were opening up and I could see the whites of his eyes like a quarter of the way. I was so shocked. I didn't want anyone to see him like that so I called the funeral director and told her. She closed his eyes. It happened twice even when they were about to close the casket.

I had heard that the "hearing sense" is the last thing that a dead person has after they die. That dead people could hear us. What do you think?

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Reecy

When my Pops died I whispered in his ear and told him how much I loved him and how much I'm going to miss him etc. etc. While telling him this I was crying but with a low cry. Imagine my surprise when I looked up at him his eyes were opening up and I could see the whites of his eyes like a quarter of the way. I was so shocked. I didn't want anyone to see him like that so I called the funeral director and told her. She closed his eyes. It happened twice even when they were about to close the casket.

I had heard that the "hearing sense" is the last thing that a dead person has after they die. That dead people could hear us. What do you think?

It wouldn't surprise me. Shortly before my father died, he was hard of hearing, but suddenly any kind of noise in the house was unbearable for him. We couldn't run the dishwasher or a vacuum cleaner, and the TV was turned off at last. No one can know for sure, and the ones who do know can't tell us, but I suspect that the dying hear things that we're merely thinking.

Clearly, I have no proof of this, and perhaps it's just what I need to believe, but I think it's possible.

[geekygirl]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

It wouldn't surprise me. Shortly before my father died, he was hard of hearing, but suddenly any kind of noise in the house was unbearable for him. We couldn't run the dishwasher or a vacuum cleaner, and the TV was turned off at last. No one can know for sure, and the ones who do know can't tell us, but I suspect that the dying hear things that we're merely thinking.

Clearly, I have no proof of this, and perhaps it's just what I need to believe, but I think it's possible.

I totally agree with you. My Mom was in a coma for the last three weeks of her life, and I felt that she was hearing everything going on. I got so pissed at doctors who would come in and basically ask, "Well, is she dead yet?" or when my sister and Dad would talk about funeral arrangements for my Mom in front of her. In the meantime, I brought a CD player in and played all of her favorite music, such as Beethoven piano concertos, Vivaldi's Four Seasons, and the soundtrack to the Sound of Music. I talked to her a lot, made amends for things that I had done that I regretted, and forgave her for things she did to me, now knowing as a Mom myself how difficult it is to keep my shit together as far as my children's emotional well-being is concerned. I have no way of knowing for certain that she heard me, but I believe in my heart that she did.

And I totally agree with your concept of those on their deathbed being able to know what we are thinking. Don't have any proof of it either, but I think they have one foot on earth and one foot on the other side. I think that concepts like these make death so fascinating. We will all get there someday, but in the meantime we deathhags struggle to get as much information as we can. It's kind of like reading a book on childbirth while you are pregnant... no matter how much you read, it doesn't come together until you are actually experiencing it yourself.

[GEAUX LSU]

i don't know if you would know this or not but how long does a body stay the way they are in a casket before everything rots?

[MbalmR]

That's a wonderful illustration, geekygirl. It drives home the point that we can never really know, but there's no harm in the kind words, the amends made, the gestures of kindness and attention paid to the ailing, however futile it may seem, in those final days. Even if it's just what the survivors need to believe, it's a good thing for mind, body and soul.

[Dearheart]

Originally Posted by Reecy

When my Pops died I whispered in his ear and told him how much I loved him and how much I'm going to miss him etc. etc. While telling him this I was crying but with a low cry. Imagine my surprise when I looked up at him his eyes were opening up and I could see the whites of his eyes like a quarter of the way. I was so shocked. I didn't want anyone to see him like that so I called the funeral director and told her. She closed his eyes. It happened twice even when they were about to close the casket.

I had heard that the "hearing sense" is the last thing that a dead person has after they die. That dead people could hear us. What do you think?

am I reading this right? Are you saying his eyes opened in his casket?

I had that happen one time with a friend of mine and I quietly turned to a friend sitting nearby to please go get the funeral director for me all the while I hovered over her to make it look like I'm kissing her forehead to keep her family from seeing her eyes opened...he came in, came over to me I slowing leaned towards his ear and told him to "look at her eyes" He then said there was an issue with the balance of her casket on it's stand and asked everyone to please leave the room...he called someone who discretely entered the room and they exited 15 minutes later...I walked with them down the hallway and they explained that the eye caps used were a little small for her orbits and that they used super glue on the lids to keep them closed, I have only heard of it happening one other time to a friend of mines uncle...I hear it is very rare for anything like that to happen.

[geekygirl]

Originally Posted by Dearheart

am I reading this right? Are you saying his eyes opened in his casket?

I had that happen one time with a friend of mine and I quietly turned to a friend sitting nearby to please go get the funeral director for me all the while I hovered over her to make it look like I'm kissing her forehead to keep her family from seeing her eyes opened...he came in, came over to me I slowing leaned towards his ear and told him to "look at her eyes" He then said there was an issue with the balance of her casket on it's stand and asked everyone to please leave the room...he called someone who discretely entered the room and they exited 15 minutes later...I walked with them down the hallway and they explained that the eye caps used were a little small for her orbits and that they used super glue on the lids to keep them closed, I have only heard of it happening one other time to a friend of mines uncle...I hear it is very rare for anything like that to happen.

My nephew is a Sergeant in a local police department. He is also on a multi-agency drug taskforce and one time several years ago a gang member's girlfriend got caught in the crossfire and was killed by a rival gang member. I don't remember the reason, but my nephew ended up attending the autopsy of the girlfriend. He said that when the ME made the first incision, a tear formed in the decedent's eye and then rolled down her cheek. He and his buddy who was also attending the autopsy completely freaked out.

[Uncle Milte's Huge Wanger]

Question about funeral preparation: If you were to be given Chuck Norris' body to prepare for burial, knowing that it is impossible for him to die, would you continue with the procedure knowing full well that he could suddenly roundhouse kick you in the head and then in turn prepare YOU for burial? Thanks.

[dailyvault]

Troll, troll, troll your boat...

[GaSpartan]

MbalmR....fascinating thread. Thanks once again for your time and expertise. Forgive me if this has been asked before, but have you ever been called upon to do an exhumation? If so, how well did the remains hold up? I know a lot depends upon the conditions, but I wondered how well the rank and file body holds up, especially in light of the recent exhumation of the Big Bopper and the Gipper.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by GEAUX LSU

i don't know if you would know this or not but how long does a body stay the way they are in a casket before everything rots?

I unfortunately don't have the benefit of the scientific measurements taken in a controlled environment such as the Body Farm, as that would require me to dig up everyone I've buried and take notes. People frown on that around here.

However, the answer is that complete decomposition depends on many factors. It depends on the cause of death, the skills of the embalmer, the type of casket selected, whether or not that casket is in a burial vault, the conditions of the soil, etc. You can exhume two bodies which were buried at the very same time, in the very same place, and you might find that one looks almost like it did the day of the funeral, and the other body is a mess. This is also true of bodies entombed in mausoleums.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by GaSpartan

MbalmR....fascinating thread. Thanks once again for your time and expertise. Forgive me if this has been asked before, but have you ever been called upon to do an exhumation? If so, how well did the remains hold up? I know a lot depends upon the conditions, but I wondered how well the rank and file body holds up, especially in light of the recent exhumation of the Big Bopper and the Gipper.

Thank you. See my above post.

[djdeath-hag]

((((MbalmR)))) you KNOW I love ya more than my luggage! When I was working "in the business" my boss told me about having taken temporary control of a body of a man whose widow had moved several times after his death...and had him disintured to follow...that this particular guy....nearly 20 years post death could have easily been touched up & displayed for public viewing without anyone coming undone. As you so well explained, every body...just as in life....in death has it's own unique story & set of circumstances. Some of which are better left unspoken & unviewed.

[MbalmR]

Amen to that, djdeath-hag! You know, years ago, some Franciscan nuns from Milwaukee (yes!) built a brand new convent here, and several of their Sisters were exhumed and MOVED to Oshkosh to be reburied in the Catholic part of the city cemetery nearby. Try to imagine THAT macabre procession rolling down Highway 41!!!!

[mgpm]

Do you think this variability in preservation has anything to do with "incorruptibility" where saints bodies are preserved? Or do you think it might be miraculous?

[Belle]

I was researching the urban legends about whether the preservatives in our diet make us decompose slower. I wanted to know if the organic-only people were going to disappear first, actually. I found the following snippets about decomposition & good old formaldehyde:

• You know, this is possibly the oldest urban legend still moving about since it is discussed in Hamlet? "the idea that one who was exposed to preserving agents in life won't decay as rapidly is first mentioned, (though perhaps was common belief at the time) in the graveyard sequence in Hamlet discussing why Tanners take longer than others to rot."
  
• Also, as an interesting point in this, most preservatives lock in moisture, keeping it from evaporating, and keeping a product seemingly fresher. Where as decomposition is caused primarily by bacteria which would feed off this excess moisture and decay you faster if the science of preservative poisoning actually worked.
  
• Quote: A popular belief amongst U.S. military personnel who served in southeast Asia during the Vietnam war that the Vietnamese, Thai, and Chinese beers contained, either by design or accident, significant amounts of formaldehyde. In fact, Gregory Clark's Words of the Vietnam War (McFarland, 1990), which catalogues slang and beliefs common to GIs of the time, describes Ba Moui Ba, a Saigonese brand, as 'Locally manufactured Vietnamese beer which contained a high quantity of formaldehyde, rendering the beer extremely potent. Since formaldehyde was typically used as an embalming fluid, GIs claimed you could go directly "from the bar to the grave, and bypass the undertaker." (p. 591)"
  

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=4503

The thread also stated that "larger people decompose more slowly". Is that true MbalmR?