Questions for a recovering mortician

[DexterKitty]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

For DexterKitty: Thanks for your patience in reading through the entire thread! It's a long one, eh?

Lisalouver might have more to contribute to the answer to your question, but no, I don't believe your friend would have been frozen solid. I don't know how many hours the poor man laid there, but I'm certain that he wasn't frozen solid, because you report that he looked good at the funeral. In a frozen body, ice crystals can form in the tissues, and this will cause swelling in small vessels and tissues during the embalming process, swelling that may be difficult for the embalmer to avoid or control. His face might have looked bloated if this were the case, although one way to control the fluid going in to the face is to do a "restricted cervical" injection, which is basically embalming the body and head separately to avoid such a disaster.

I'm going to assume that a body which has frozen solid must be thawed out to accomplish anything--autopsy or embalming. How long this takes, I don't know. I've mercifully never been forced to find out. I do remember the line from "Goodfellas" though, where Henry Hill said it took two days for Frankie Carbone's body to thaw out for the autopsy. I wouldn't surprise me if that was pretty accurate.

Thanks for answering my questions. If I remember right.... his funeral was 4 days after he died. I bet he did have to thaw out.

I've got another question if that's OK?

I had a cousin that hanged himself in jail. It was a real shock because, nobody including his immediate family even knew he was in jail. Anyway.... he accomplished this by a television cable around his neck, tieing the cable around the top bunk, and flinging himself forward. He weighed like 350 lbs. It was ruled suicide by positional asphixia. At his veiwing his face had a large black bruise, that I assume came from the cable. Is there any reason why this wouldn't have been able to be covered with make up? They had used make up on him, but that particular area didn't cover well? He had been autopsied, and I know that makes a big difference.

[Jaenne]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

For bunny and Jaenne: Sorry, I don't have any pics of a traditional Jewish casket, but all you have to do is imagine an very, very plain wooden box, with wooden handles on it. It's probably a special order deal, and I've never had to go to those extremes for a Jewish burial. Perhaps in some areas of the country, a plain pine box is used.

Re: the different sections of the cemetery, or entire cemeteries set aside for Jewish burial, I don't think that has anything to do with burial methods or beliefs. There are whole sections of our city cemetery that are set aside for Catholic burials. There is also a spot just for the nuns (we have a convent in town,) and for infants. In the cases of religious designation, I think it's just a matter of the various faiths wanting their brothers and sisters to be buried in the same place, nothing more, nothing less. I'm sure the ground is consecrated in some way, too. In some Catholic cemeteries, the family has to obtain permission from the church to have their loved one buried in a "Catholic only" cemetery.

With all of the requirements for an Orthodox funeral, I'm assuming it's about as environmentally friendly as you can get with a conventional burial, isn't it?

[MbalmR]

For DexterKitty: I am hard pressed to see any reason for bruising to the face in the situation you decribed. Once again, maybe Lisalouver could help us out with this one. Is it possible the bruise occurred antemortem (prior to death?) In a hanging situation, bruising may be found on the neck, but isn't expected to be found on the face, unless the victim jumped and swung forward into a wall or a piece of furniture and a bruise had a chance to form quickly before asphyxiation occurred.

Why the bruise wasn't properly covered, I cannot say. Some very dark bruises will still show through, even with the most opaque cosmetics available to the restorative artist. I've found this to be especially true with the delicate skin of the hands on people who've experienced bruising from intravenous injections. Some restorative artists just do a sloppy job and don't put a lot of effort into covering up bruises. Also, in some cases, a little bruising showing through is actually preferable to caking on the makeup so thick that it looks just like that: makeup.

A new technique that may remedy this situation is applying makeup with an air brush. I didn't have the opportunity to use this technique in my day, but it works best on bruises and provides more even and natural looking coverage that doesn't look cakey.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by Jaenne

With all of the requirements for an Orthodox funeral, I'm assuming it's about as environmentally friendly as you can get with a conventional burial, isn't it?

As far as conventional burials go, yes, although keep in mind that many trees are sacrificed to make one casket. The most environmentally friendly form of burial is green burial, quite popular in England, I'm told. Here's a link for more information:

http://www.greenburials.org/

[DexterKitty]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

For DexterKitty: I am hard pressed to see any reason for bruising to the face in the situation you decribed. Once again, maybe Lisalouver could help us out with this one. Is it possible the bruise occurred antemortem (prior to death?) In a hanging situation, bruising may be found on the neck, but isn't expected to be found on the face, unless the victim jumped and swung forward into a wall or a piece of furniture and a bruise had a chance to form quickly before asphyxiation occurred.

Why the bruise wasn't properly covered, I cannot say. Some very dark bruises will still show through, even with the most opaque cosmetics available to the restorative artist. I've found this to be especially true with the delicate skin of the hands on people who've experienced bruising from intravenous injections. Some restorative artists just do a sloppy job and don't put a lot of effort into covering up bruises. Also, in some cases, a little bruising showing through is actually preferable to caking on the makeup so thick that it looks just like that: makeup.

A new technique that may remedy this situation is applying makeup with an air brush. I didn't have the opportunity to use this technique in my day, but it works best on bruises and provides more even and natural looking coverage that doesn't look cakey.

Thanks for answering my question. The more I think about it.... I wonder if his face kind of leaned against the cable, for a lenghty time, before he was discovered. Maybe, it cut into his face? That mayhave been what happened.

[MbalmR]

My husband suggested that too, Dexter! It is a possibility.

[FutureMortician]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

Suicidal feelings--heck even "regular" old depression--are hard to describe. Even when we have the words to make our feelings known, unless someone else has been there, they can't truly relate to it. At least that's my limited understanding of suicidal thoughts/feelings.

I wish I could describe to you the ANGER I felt when I had to deal with a suicide. There's a darkness in that anger that is hard to define, too. And that was anger from an outsider! I saw the wrecked families, the sobbing parents, the dazed look in the spouse's eyes.........and these images haunt me to this day. During several funerals for teenagers who died by completing suicide, I saw HUNDREDS of kids show up to pay their respects, or to come to some kind of understanding about the why of it all--heck, maybe even just to get out of class for the day. What always bothered me was the thought in the back of my mind that "you're all here now; where were you when this poor kid was suffering so?"

I know many suffer in silence, and teenagers are notorious for that. But I once counted 300 kids stuffed into a church for a service, and I couldn't help but wonder if ALL of those kids were actually "friends" of the deceased, or if they were merely people who passed him in the halls at school and were there for the "thrill factor," do you know what I mean? I'm not trying to minimize their presence, nor minimize whatever personal grief they may have been feeling. And either way, I know it isn't important (the reasons they were all there.) I'm just sharing some of the things that ran through my head at the time as a professional.

I think that in many cases, what will happen is that someone will appear happy enough, and nobody who passes them in the halls thinks anything of them being depressed. Maybe the person had many acquaintances, who always just assumed that the person had lots of other, closer friends. Perhaps their lab partner, who was always polite and respectful, had no idea that they provided the most conversation out of anyone in the school, maybe the guy running the cash register in the cafeteria didn't know that the most touch that person experienced all day was when she handed him the change. I think that a tremendous downfall of the social hierarchy of secondary school can be the blindness towards shy individuals. Everyone figures that the person has lots of friends outside school, or in different groups, etc. and nobody notices that they really don't.

And then when that person does something drastic, such as ending their life, it all kind of comes into vision, and everyone kind of realizes that this person really didn't have a phone book full of numbers of other friends, or a clique that accepting him outside of school, or whatever it was that we automatically assumed they had going on.

Likewise, I've seen situations where I've attempted to befriend people who I thought seemed like loners, only to find that they had a large group of friends in a clique I never noticed.

I guess what I'm saying is that when thinking "Where were you when this person was alive," consider that the person who you are thinking about may be thinking the exact same thing about themselves.

Just another persepctive to consider.

(By the way, thank you for this thread, I'm only on page fifteen but it's very enjoyable and informative.)

[MbalmR]

And an excellent perspective, FM. Thanks. I agree. One thing that is always present in a suicide, from the survivors' standpoint, is the "shock" factor. No one ever walked into the funeral home and said, "well, I saw this coming." So you've made some excellent points!

Thanks for taking the time to meander through this thread, and welcome to the forum!

[anne]

Annie - My moms friends husband died and she wanted his body at home for a viewing, during that time embalming fluid leaked from the incision in his neck (she thought he was bleeding which in some ways comforted her), why would the fluid leak out?

Sorry to bug you on a weekend.

[MbalmR]

LOL @ bugging me on a weekend! Are you kidding? Funeral directors don't get weekends off anyway! (Just kidding.)

The fluid leaking from the neck incision is caused by one or a combination of three things: no ligature was used to tie off the vessels after embalming. (I know a FD who never tied off the vessels, and I don't know how in hell he got away with it.) Another cause would be that the embalmer failed to use an absorbant powder called Inner-Seal. It absorbs moisture in the incision, then turns hard to create a seal. Finally, the suturing itself could have been sloppy and loose, allowing fluid to escape.

[DexterKitty]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

And an excellent perspective, FM. Thanks. I agree. One thing that is always present in a suicide, from the survivors' standpoint, is the "shock" factor. No one ever walked into the funeral home and said, "well, I saw this coming." So you've made some excellent points!

Thanks for taking the time to meander through this thread, and welcome to the forum!

When my cousin killed himself, our whole family was completely, and utterly shocked !!! His parents didn't even know he was in jail. They got a call from the jail... the deputy that called them, asked them if they had a son by that name, and promptly told them over the phone, your son is at the jail ,and he's killed himself. We need you to come pick up his personal belongings. WTF....was that? Talk about a shock !!! The sad part is... he was selling drugs, and he had a genious IQ. What a waste of high intelligence, he could have been a brain surgeon. I'm not sure how he got on the wrong path? His Dad has been in very poor health every since. Suicide is an extremely selfish act IMO.

[MbalmR]

Suicides were always the hardest for me too, DexterKitty. So...........avoidable and senseless, but apparently, to those poor souls who complete a suicide, it's the only solution they can "live" with. From what I've read about and heard from families, the selfishness of the act is rarely part of the equation for these people. They think people will be better off without them. That's unthinkable desperation! I hope I never know that kind of hopelessness in my life.

[geekygirl]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

I've never viewed a cremation; it's too hot and too dangerous to leave the door open to a cremation chamber when it's going full blast, but my assumption is that the heat from the flame is enough to cremate the remains. The flame is not directly applied to the body.

I viewed my Mother's cremation, at least the crematory operator sliding her body into the oven. The crematory oven is made out of special heat absorbing bricks that they use in Kilns so that they will withstand the heat and not throw out a ton of heat to its surroundings. When they open the heavy and thick metal door, first section of the crematory oven has metal rollers to facilitate sliding the decedent in. In California, the decedent must be in some type of container, even if the person is getting cremated. We had her in a heavy cardboard box that was lined with plastic and the funeral home charged $99.00 for it.

Of course, being a death hag, I was asking the crematory operator all sorts of questions. He told me that the "typical" cremation takes about four hours, but of course that depends on the size of the decendent. When they roll the person into the oven, there are small flames burning on all four sides (and probably underneath) of a 4' by 8' "griddle" for lack of a better term. Once the oven door is closed, the flames shoot up a good 3' around the sides.

Even with the door closed and the special bricks lining the oven, the heat that is thrown off is amazing. I was standing a good ten feet away from the oven when the cremation started and I could still feel a HUGE blast of heat coming off the oven. The operator told me they have a series of underground afterburners that captures any smoke or steam that comes out during the cremation, so no one would ever know they were cremating bodies there. He said they are heavily regulated by California's Air Quality Management District (AQMD) and would incur very expensive fines if they even produced a small amount of smoke.

[Bayou Queen]

I have been reading for the past hour and a half and still haven't read every post! Fascinating subject.

Since I was a teenager, I have wanted to be a mortician mostly because it is the one final respectful thing that can be done to a person that has left this earth. I know it's done for the living, but I think the decease's remained should be handled with the utmost respect.

I now work in the private office of the district attorney. I would have loved to have gone into forensics, as our office also prosecutes those who have had a hand in ending a life, and finding out who committed a crime is not only getting this person off the streets, but helping the family with closure and bringing justice to the memory of those who were murdered. But I just work in clerical.

My questions is, have you ever had anything happen to you or someone in your field that was a bit out of the ordinary, in a supernatural way? I really consider myself to be a very good Christian, and I don't necessarily believe in ghosts, but then there are stories that you hear about funeral homes and spirits.

You have taken a lot of time in answering our questions, and I truly appreciate it.

[MbalmR]

Welcome to the forum, Bayou Queen!

I have not had anything out of the ordinary that I considered supernatural happen to me, nor do I know anyone in the profession who has. My philosophy is that the spirits of the deceased have far better places to go than hanging around the funeral home for any reason.

[DexterKitty]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

Suicides were always the hardest for me too, DexterKitty. So...........avoidable and senseless, but apparently, to those poor souls who complete a suicide, it's the only solution they can "live" with. From what I've read about and heard from families, the selfishness of the act is rarely part of the equation for these people. They think people will be better off without them. That's unthinkable desperation! I hope I never know that kind of hopelessness in my life.

I don't know what my cousin was thinking? He was 32 and only looking at 10 years. I've suffered from depression in my life, and would never put my family through that. He had 2 small children that barely remember him now. Very sad situation.

[AnneBoleyn]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

LOL @ bugging me on a weekend! Are you kidding? Funeral directors don't get weekends off anyway! (Just kidding.)

The fluid leaking from the neck incision is caused by one or a combination of three things: no ligature was used to tie off the vessels after embalming. (I know a FD who never tied off the vessels, and I don't know how in hell he got away with it.) Another cause would be that the embalmer failed to use an absorbant powder called Inner-Seal. It absorbs moisture in the incision, then turns hard to create a seal. Finally, the suturing itself could have been sloppy and loose, allowing fluid to escape.

Where on the neck is the incision exactly? I´m thinking if the suturing is visible, how will you be able to hide it, if the deceased isn´t wearing a high collar shirt? Is it done, so the suturing isn´t visible?

[MbalmR]

Typically, the incision made to access the common carotid artery and jugular vein is made not on the neck, but along the clavicle, running parallel to the bone. There are other anatomical points of access to these vessels, but that is the most popular one, because of the proximity of the vessels to the incision (this is, no digging around to find the vessels.)

In the case of a family selecting for their loved one a low-cut collar, if the embalmer knows this ahead of time, he/she can make an incision elsewhere, most likely the femoral artery and vein, so that the incision does not show.

Re: suturing, a "worm stitch" can make the incision appear less obvious, and can be waxed over, if necessary, and cosmetics applied to conceal the incision. The funeral director may also encourage the family to select another garment, or have them bring in a nice scarf to conceal the incision.

[bunny]

you know I can read all these threads and look at all the strange pics, but when you talk about an incision I get all queezy hahah how odd...

[MbalmR]

Not odd at all! I looked at and handled plenty of gore in my day, but just ask me to give a living human being a shot, and I'd faint dead away! The first time I had an IV hook up stuck in my hand, I was so traumatized I threw up (dry heaves--I had been fasting the night before surgery.) I'm scared to death of the dentist and spiders. There's just no telling what will affect people in what way.

[bunny]

Ok I dont feel so bad..hahah

[AnneBoleyn]

It´s the same with me... i can look at blood and guts, don´t mind needles at all (even lended my hand when my fellow students practised placing IV needles)... but I simply cannot stand people touching the inside of my mouth... when i have to go to the dentist, I am scared months in advance.. and I usually get doped pretty good before going in....and I can´t stand on a chair without panicking... Strange things that scare us

[lovemymonkey]

Someone please ask more questions, I love this thread, and can't think of anything else to ask LOLOL

[MbalmR]

LOL thanks, monkey. If the questions dry up, I can always do some trivial pursuit or make another speech about funeral rites of the various cultures/religions.

[mugglemeg]

I came up with a question. When I was in high school, my beloved grandma died. She was my best friend (which sounds kind of lame, but it really wasn't ). Anyway, she died overnight and was found around noon the next day. We think it was a heart attack, but don't know for sure. She was in her 80s, so we didn't have an autopsy. Anyway, I remember specifically at the viewing her mouth. Most women in my family have kind of pursed lips. I don't know how to explain it, but we have big smiles & wide mouths, but usually we keep our lips pursed. I remember her mouth being very drawn, it looked like she was frowning really deeply. I remember it kind of freaked me out. I assume it's because of the lack of muscle tone, etc, but would there have been a way to make it look more "natural"? I'm not expecting there to be, but I've always wondered. Thanks!!

[DexterKitty]

I've got a question.... what's it like to deal with a floater (somebody who has drowned)??? Can they be embalmed? Is it ever possible to have a viewing if the person is a floater???

[MbalmR]

For mugglemeg: there is absolutely a solution to this problem, but it must be addressed BEFORE embalming begins. It begins with a photo of the deceased, which the funeral director should have asked for. The mouth of the deceased is very tricky to get right, and if it's not right, the entire face looks wrong, as you well know.

All mouth closure begins with the same process, closing the mouth and securing it with ligature or wire. An "expression former" is put over the teeth and gums, which gives the mouth a "normal" shape that might otherwise not be there (causing that drawn, frowning appearance.) A compound called "Stay Cream" or even Vaseline is dabbed on to the expression former to hold the lips in place until tissues are set.

Now, here's the trick that the embalmer should have used to get Grandma's mouth to look right: while fluid is being injected, the embalmer should gently massage the outer corners of the mouth in an upward motion, which helps prevent that droopy mouth that so any of us have seen at wakes. He/she could also have pursed the lips, to create the "pouty" appearance of the mouth that the women in your family have, by gently squishing the lips together from the outer corner of the mouth. As the tissue firms, this expression will stay on the face.

Once tissues are set, however, there is little remedy to correct the problem.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by DexterKitty

I've got a question.... what's it like to deal with a floater (somebody who has drowned)??? Can they be embalmed? Is it ever possible to have a viewing if the person is a floater???

This would depend on how far decomposition has progressed, or how long the remains were in the water. It also depends on the temperature of the water, and the location in which the deceased is found. For example, if a body is found to have drifted under water for some distance, the body may be "damaged" by hitting rocks, coral, submerged logs--anything that could be found under water. Also, the remains may have been nibbled on by fish. In winter months, the deceased would have clothing on to protect his skin, and cold water delays decomposition. This is one of those "it depends" situations. Technically, I guess the body could be embalmed, but that won't necessarily make it appropriate to view.

[bunny]

I have another question...
what does the face look like if you are not embalmed?

[chirock]

I have a question (finally!). My best friend's boyfriend committed suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning. When the police found him, they tried to resuscitate him to no avail. At his wake, his neck and face were completely swollen. Is this a byproduct of the oxygen the EMT's gave him? That's why my friend was told.

thanks in advance, and thanks again for this awesome thread!

[MbalmR]

For bunny: even if remains are not embalmed, for viewing purposes (family only,) the features will be set, so the face will look relatively normal, perhaps quite pale, but otherwise normal. The body will have received a thorough washing, so, in the case of a female, the hair won't be styled, but it will be neatly combed.

All of this assumes that viewing takes place a day or two after death. With refrigeraton, the face may look just fine for a week or so. Eventually, however, the tissues will dehydrate, especially the lips and mucous membranes of the eye lids, and they will appear shriveled and dark red.

[MbalmR]

For Chirock: No. Swelling in this case would not be caused by the oxygen administered by EMT professionals. If your friend's boyfriend was taken to the emergency room, there is no telling what the ER staff may have pumped into him to try to save his life, and some of those fluids might cause swelling, but I think the swelling was actually due to sloppy embalming practices. If he was pronounced dead at the scene, it was absolutely due to sloppy embalming.

I don't mean to imply that any incompetence happened here; sometimes the best efforts of the most talented embalmers fail, for various reasons, but with the information you've provided, I shall assume that embalming fluid was pumped into the face of the deceased at too fast a rate.

[mugglemeg]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

For mugglemeg: there is absolutely a solution to this problem, but it must be addressed BEFORE embalming begins. It begins with a photo of the deceased, which the funeral director should have asked for. The mouth of the deceased is very tricky to get right, and if it's not right, the entire face looks wrong, as you well know.

All mouth closure begins with the same process, closing the mouth and securing it with ligature or wire. An "expression former" is put over the teeth and gums, which gives the mouth a "normal" shape that might otherwise not be there (causing that drawn, frowning appearance.) A compound called "Stay Cream" or even Vaseline is dabbed on to the expression former to hold the lips in place until tissues are set.

Now, here's the trick that the embalmer should have used to get Grandma's mouth to look right: while fluid is being injected, the embalmer should gently massage the outer corners of the mouth in an upward motion, which helps prevent that droopy mouth that so any of us have seen at wakes. He/she could also have pursed the lips, to create the "pouty" appearance of the mouth that the women in your family have, by gently squishing the lips together from the outer corner of the mouth. As the tissue firms, this expression will stay on the face.

Once tissues are set, however, there is little remedy to correct the problem.

Wow. That's interesting. I remember asking my cousin about it at the time & she said it's just the way they look. Obviously it doesn't matter now, and when I think of her, I think of her as she was when she lived, but, as I said before, I have always wondered.

I think I've said it before, but I want to thank you again for taking the time to answer our questions so thoughtfully & thoroughly. You're the best!!

[anne]

Hi again, I'm trying to help on a John Doe case where a body was washed ashore near to my old hometown in the UK, the police say the body was in the water for 8 weeks, but the remains were almost skeletal. The north sea is pretty cold, wouldn't the tempreture slow decomp?
Thanks and best wishes

[MbalmR]

Cold water absolutely retards decomposition. It doesn't prevent it, but it slows it down. Perhaps upon further inspection, the medical examiner will note that tissue loss was largely due to the opportunistic feeding behaviors of fish?

[bunny]

you know MbalmR I have learned more from you and this thread then any where...thank you!

[lovemymonkey]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

For bunny: even if remains are not embalmed, for viewing purposes (family only,) the features will be set, so the face will look relatively normal, perhaps quite pale, but otherwise normal. The body will have received a thorough washing, so, in the case of a female, the hair won't be styled, but it will be neatly combed.

All of this assumes that viewing takes place a day or two after death. With refrigeraton, the face may look just fine for a week or so. Eventually, however, the tissues will dehydrate, especially the lips and mucous membranes of the eye lids, and they will appear shriveled and dark red.

My father in law commited suiced in 2004, we flew to Houston 2 days after it happened, and viewed himn 4 days after he died. He looked the same, except his eyes were kind of open, and you could see the eyeballs had shrunk into his head. It was a calming experiance for my husband, he said that's the most peaceful he'd ever looked. He wasn't embalmed, and was cremated the next day.

[bunny]

thanks Jaime...
I dont want to be embalmed, I just think the idea is so creepy...mind you that is just me...
here is a question, my husband is a giving his body to a University so they can do what they want with it...I dont like the idea but it is his...so when would I get the body back or would I?

[DexterKitty]

Originally Posted by lovemymonkey

My father in law commited suiced in 2004, we flew to Houston 2 days after it happened, and viewed himn 4 days after he died. He looked the same, except his eyes were kind of open, and you could see the eyeballs had shrunk into his head. It was a calming experiance for my husband, he said that's the most peaceful he'd ever looked. He wasn't embalmed, and was cremated the next day.

My Grandma looked better at her viewing than she had looked her entire life. She was chronically ill most of her life. When they embalmed her, they plumpled her up a bit, and it made her look beautiful. It was a wonderful final image to remember her by. She looked like she was at great peace. No more suffering for her. I really commend the people in the funeral profession, they make trying times so much easier.

[MbalmR]

Originally Posted by bunny

thanks Jaime...
I dont want to be embalmed, I just think the idea is so creepy...mind you that is just me...
here is a question, my husband is a giving his body to a University so they can do what they want with it...I dont like the idea but it is his...so when would I get the body back or would I?

You would get your husband's remains back. I'm not sure how it all works, but that is between you and the school. (I think the usual procedure is to cremate the remains and return them to the family.)

Keep in mind that donation requires prior paperwork and approval. For example, most medical colleges will only accept remains that are 100% intact, with the exception of older women who have had a hysterectomy. To set this plan in motion, contact a local funeral home for the forms to be filled out. Ask for the "anatomical gift act" paperwork.

Here's a link: http://www.anatomicalgiftact.org/DesktopDefault.aspx

[bunny]

what is it like to do a baby, that must be so hard, when they look like little angels..I guess they dont need any makeup on..

[MbalmR]

Infants are hard to stand over and not shake your fist at God or some higher power and demand to know WHY??? They also, because of their size, require far more delecate embalming procedures. They don't require a great deal of cosmetics, usually. Maybe a little tint on the cheeks, but that's about it.

I am childless by choice, so I cannot speak about how handling an infant affects funeral directors who are parents. I can report that my husband had to embalm infants on three occasions when his own children were about to be born, and it was very disturbing to him, in ways that he has not fully described to me. I can only imagine what was going through his mind at the time.

[chirock]

Thanks for the info, Annie. I have been wondering about my friend's boyfriend for almost 20 years now. I didn't think it was the EMT's, but just wanted to make sure.

[DexterKitty]

Mbalmar.... is it possible to reconstruct a person's entire head. I saw that picture on here, where the guy's head was completely reconstructed. Can that really be done? What's the worst reconstruction you ever had to do? I've always been completely fascinated with restorative art. I could look at before and after pictures all day long, if I could find any.

[MbalmR]

It is possible, DexterKitty. It sounds crazy, and I've never had to do anything as extensive as put a whole skull back together, but we did get a lecture about how to do it in school.

The key, so we were told, was to begin at the top of the skull and put the bone fragments back together, working your way down to the mandible. I'm hard pressed to know how one can do this working with skin attached to the bone, but I guess it's been done. I have a wonderful embalming video of some restorative work that Jack Adams has done. He is THE go-to guy for tough restorative cases. He's based out of Chicago, and works for the Dodge Company (mortuary supplies, not cars.) He once had to put together the head of an automobile accident victim while the mother sat and waited in the lobby for HOURS. She wasn't leaving until she saw her son. The transformation was remarkable. And he was under pressure to hurry, too.

The biggest "repair job" that I had to do again involved an automobile accident victim. Her face was pretty torn up, and the family was adamant about seeing her. They planned to close the casket once they viewed her (which, incidentally, was to be the next DAY!)

I put her face back together with fine dental floss right out of my purse, using a "worm stitch," with is a sub-dermal suture that can be waxed over to cover up any puckering, then cosmetized.

The family came in the next day for the wake to view her, and they elected to keep the casket open, since she looked so.........normal. It was the biggest compliment I ever got in funeral service.

[DexterKitty]

Originally Posted by MbalmR

It is possible, DexterKitty. It sounds crazy, and I've never had to do anything as extensive as put a whole skull back together, but we did get a lecture about how to do it in school.

The key, so we were told, was to begin at the top of the skull and put the bone fragments back together, working your way down to the mandible. I'm hard pressed to know how one can do this working with skin attached to the bone, but I guess it's been done. I have a wonderful embalming video of some restorative work that Jack Adams has done. He is THE go-to guy for tough restorative cases. He's based out of Chicago, and works for the Dodge Company (mortuary supplies, not cars.) He once had to put together the head of an automobile accident victim while the mother sat and waited in the lobby for HOURS. She wasn't leaving until she saw her son. The transformation was remarkable. And he was under pressure to hurry, too.

The biggest "repair job" that I had to do again involved an automobile accident victim. Her face was pretty torn up, and the family was adamant about seeing her. They planned to close the casket once they viewed her (which, incidentally, was to be the next DAY!)

I put her face back together with fine dental floss right out of my purse, using a "worm stitch," with is a sub-dermal suture that can be waxed over to cover up any puckering, then cosmetized.

The family came in the next day for the wake to view her, and they elected to keep the casket open, since she looked so.........normal. It was the biggest compliment I ever got in funeral service.

Wow!!! That sounds like quite an undertaking. Can the head be reconstructed if some of the bones are missing? What if it was totally destroyed like Nikki Catsouras', could that be fixed? Probably not, huh? I knew a guy hit a cow when he was on a motorcycle. He took a ditch face first going 50 mph. People who went to the viewing said his entire face was made of mortuary mastif. I guess it was very obvious that it wasn't his real face.

I got another question is that's OK?

When a person has a compound fracture in a viewable place, how do they get the bones set, to be able to pose the body in the casket? The reason I ask this, is because I know a guy that wrecked his motorcycle, and his arm was so badly fractured, that they had trouble getting it set. They got creative, and put a track baton in his hand (because he had been in track in high school) and people that viewed him said, he looked like he was going to take off running. I enjoy this thread so much, and appreciate you answering all of our questions. I bet in your career you made a difficult time for many people so much easier to take.

[MbalmR]

It would depend on the size of the missing bone fragment, but if it's small enough, something can be used to fill in the gap--usually a basket weave suture that acts as an anchor for mastic compound or wax. The compound is applied over the sutures, and then the RA will reproduce pores and facial lines as necessary, then put cosmetics over the area.

In poor Nikki Catsouras' case, the only solution would be to slam the lid shut.

Compound fractures can be set prior to embalming. They don't have to be perfectly set, and splints can be used to secure the fracture. Sometimes, after dressing the deceased, if there is a slight protrusion from the fracture, cotton packing material can be placed under the clothing to smooth out the appearance of the broken appendage.

[DexterKitty]

I've always wondered about some of that stuff. Thanks for explaining it.

Here's another one if that's OK?

How do you construct an ear or nose? Do you use a mold or shaper? Or, is it completely made out of wax?

[MbalmR]

In school, we practiced making each feature seperately with clay, then we had to make a whole head with clay applied to a plaster skull. Although I never had to do it, in a "real life" situation, we'd fashion an ear or nose out of wax.

[Cupcake]

Ok, I don't mean to offend anyone with this question, so here it goes...

Where I live, and I suspect in most cities and town, there is a "black" funeral home. Why is that? I realize that there are black churches and white churches, is the reasoning behind it the same? Is it harder to work on a person of color?

Don't shoot me please...

Cupcake